So many rats??? rule help.

[Toxic4Mosh]

ok playing pandora v Hamelin and he had some rats I had alps. and we got in combat. rat activates and has to take a Wp > 12 duel from the alps at Double negative. and takes a wound from that and loosing the Wp duel cause by Pandora. so 2 dmg which kills a rat. and with Hamelin in play he gets a new rat so at this stage he keeps re flipping until he passes the duel stating he has a new rat every time. ( about 6 rats) and pretty much waited till he flipped red joker to pass. like wtf? is this legit? is this rule that annoying that he has to pass In order to do anything? or is there a limit on the rats he can place off an ability,if not this needs to be errated. imagine if he had avatar Hamlin. my crew would fall in 1 activation. help please.

[Soulless Life]

Nope, no limit. Although, was Hamelin or a RatCatcher within 6"? If not, then no rats come back.

[Toxic4Mosh]

really? no errata to limit it?

[Omenbringer]

It is annoying but completely legal. Though there hasn't been much errata for Hamelin(and his shenanigans) one has been promised in the future.

As an aside, did he have Nix or a Rat Catcher near by as well (cause nothing is more demoralising than working to hurt those two just to have them healed back up completely by this as well)?

[LordZombie]

That is why he is on the chopping block at the moment.

[Toxic4Mosh]

yeah I played today and nix just kept getting heals apparently he can take multiple 0 actions when rats die (sac a model and healing flip) also the rat catcher healing every time a rat died

[Trevelyan]

Do we have any indication as to when the Hamelin errata might be ready?

[DeusInnomen]

Do we have any indication as to when the Hamelin errata might be ready?

It's rarely announced when it comes out, but the Wyrd folks starting leaving hints within a few days of its release. As soon as you see them posting and talking about it, assume it's coming soon. Until then, there's no use in pestering them. I reckon the Rules Marshals are working on this behind the scenes.

[Fetid Strumpet]

No, currently no ETA. Hamelin is a very complicated master, and one thing Wyrd has shown they do well, at least in my opinion, is that when they undertake to do something for the benefit of the game they are careful how they proceed.

Look at the Dreamer Errata, it took a good long while for that to come out, and it toned down the worst of the abuses most people encountered with him, but didn't destroy to flavor of what they were trying to accomplish with him.

Hamelin's mechanics, especially in how he interacts with his crew are complicated enough that altering them is a process that is going to take a while. Wyrd has shown they have a good track record in this so I'm prepared to wait.

[Gruesome]

I believe the last comment I saw was something along the lines of: (Paraphrasing)

"Yes, Hamelin and Nekima are on the operating table, but don't expect anything too soon".

Cannot remember what thread that was in though.

[Omenbringer]

No, currently no ETA. Hamelin is a very complicated master, and one thing Wyrd has shown they do well, at least in my opinion, is that when they undertake to do something for the benefit of the game they are careful how they proceed...

Hamelin's mechanics, especially in how he interacts with his crew are complicated enough that altering them is a process that is going to take a while. Wyrd has shown they have a good track record in this so I'm prepared to wait.

This is very true, Wyrd has a lot of recommendations (from players such as Magicpockets, Sandwich, myself and many others) in threads and posts that have been made since his release to digest and test to insure that the minimal ammount of changes have to be made (and that they dont have to be made again).

Because of his crew interactions (and his vast hiring pool, which will only get bigger with each subsequint release) he is difficult to fix without hamstringing.

Honestly I think there are only a few things that really need fixing to tone him down to resonable levels (and most are interactions with his "vanilla" crew list).

[ravenborne]

Can't wait for him to get an errata. I will be buying him as soon as it is out.

[Trevelyan]

Can't wait for him to get an errata. I will be buying him as soon as it is out.

I've got him now. The biggest complaint I've had from other people is the time it takes to activate the rats.

[ravenborne]

My main reason for waiting is that I have no idea how many rats to buy after his errata, and also I don't need anything else that slows my games down.

[Sybaris]

If you want the precise words;

"6. Never fear, Hamelin and Nekima will get their turn. We wanted this out first. ;)"

I can't wait for Nekima, but i totally agree with Hamelin being quite the annoyance too.

Source:

First post in http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?31825-New-FAQ-Errata-pages-live-on-Malifaux-com

[VBGames]

Playing Hamelin is one of the fastest masters I've come across. He's so straight forward imho. What slows everyone down? Even if I slaughter a pack a couple times to get a lot of attacks, it goes so fast...Impetuous, attack, resolve, next rat, rinse, repeat. quick and easy. Not trolling, just don't understand.

[Kadeton]

Playing Hamelin is one of the fastest masters I've come across. He's so straight forward imho. What slows everyone down? Even if I slaughter a pack a couple times to get a lot of attacks, it goes so fast...Impetuous, attack, resolve, next rat, rinse, repeat. quick and easy. Not trolling, just don't understand.

There's no slowdown in the decision-making, no. The options are so limited that deciding what to do with the rats takes basically no time at all.

What takes the time is flipping all the cards, I've found. 8-12 rats attacking 2-3 times (over multiple death-renewals) with positive twists to everything flip a heck of a lot of cards, and that genuinely takes time. It's also quite tedious for the opponent to see his models slowly and inevitably nibbled to death while they spend 5 minutes just making Df flips.

[VBGames]

I've waited longer for Rasputinas Overpowers, Or Ortega family companion activations, both of which vaporize groups of models. Of course I don't run my rats in a pack that large either. I can see what you're saying, but in my head it boils down to 'he took a long time to kill my guys'. Besides, three rat hits+bleeding disease drops most models. Why even run them that large?

I suppose this is just a prime example of how new I am to the game and I'm not yet seeing the subtle differences.

[The Godlyness]

is there anyway to kill hamlin in a shared contain power when playing opheila? cause him being a bully says no. (well maybe pere exploding twice) or lenny i guess....sad days.

[omnivision6]

is there anyway to kill hamlin in a shared contain power when playing opheila? cause him being a bully says no. (well maybe pere exploding twice) or lenny i guess....sad days.

I would use a different Outcast master. Cause you play Factions in Malifaux, not Masters/Henchmen.

[Kadeton]

I've waited longer for Rasputinas Overpowers, Or Ortega family companion activations, both of which vaporize groups of models. Of course I don't run my rats in a pack that large either. I can see what you're saying, but in my head it boils down to 'he took a long time to kill my guys'. Besides, three rat hits+bleeding disease drops most models. Why even run them that large?

I usually start with 6.

What I've found is that with things like Overpower and Companion, you still feel like you can affect the outcome through judicious cheating of cards or use of soulstones, because the damage comes in big chunks. When you're attacked by a rat pack, there's almost no point in cheating (if Nix isn't around and you can cheat at all) and soulstones are a waste, because the attacks you negate are just followed up with more attacks and you'll die in the end anyway. This makes the process very boring, whereas the other situations are exciting because the outcome is much more variable.

[Toxic4Mosh]

lol well I'm fine with the Hamlin mechanic myself. it's cool to watch ( the first time ) but after that it gets old quickly. all I want is a simple cap, saying hey you stop flipping cards till you hit red joker it's annoying and very unsportsmanlike. maybe a cap of 3 rat rotations per rat killed through the same effect. not fussed if a rat dies 6 times through various things but loosing a willpower 12 duel with double negative and taking damage through an alp and pandora when you re-shuffle your deck for each rat. if he had the joker in hand it would have taken about 40 minutes to flip 3 cards over 10

[VBGames]

Opps, sry for hijacking your thread. I agree that is kind of crazy. Until they do change anything, my FLGS usually just agree that eventually, one will pass the test, so we ignore the effect as a Gentlemen's Agreement.

I recently had a slightly similar situation where a flamewall blocked my rats. We basically agreed that the rat would just eventually respawn on the other side of it, and skipped right to that placement, instead of walking through the whole process.

[kasin666]

new rats come into game paralized might work.

[mpangelu]

VB:

As far as Hamlin goes and running him, its fast. But explaining to people who haven't seen how he works why your getting infinite amounts of rats and healing up your crew with no trouble, and them seeing how he works around wound enducers (alps I know) it can bog things down if you go step by step. Also a friend of mine and myself really like to understand whats going on and why when we do interactions, so we will usually take our time with it.