Sliver Chocobo Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Why not jack Daw and killjoy? they are option open to the ressers and are able to use the better than the other faction, it like looking at Leveticus, but ignoring any outcast undead model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_b Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I've voted Nicodem as his speed and reliance on corpse counters can let him down badly. I haven't used his avatar though so can't comment on that. I will say though that the original three Resser masters don't really stand alone very well. As a whole the form a toolbox that lets you face any master but there are some really bad matchups for all of them individually. McMourning is probably the easiest to get along with but has horrible wp vulnerabilities, Nicodem suffers from speed and over reliance on corpse counters, Seamus suffers if bogged down in combat and his crew can lack big hitters. If you get a matchup that plays to their strengths though... Dead Rider adds a lot to all of them, not least of which is providing a fast reliable taxi service. Belles are a gimme for Seamus and McMourning, for pulling stuff into range but also for pulling Seamus or Doug around. People have mentioned Jack "Crutch" Daw and Hanged but he is (overly) good with anyone really and I don't think you'll learn much about how to use Ressers by fielding him. Molly has a use btw, it's filthy as sin but I'm not spilling the beans just yet ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I love Seamus with his avatar. But, the fact that a 3 point guild model(Watcher) that has so many other uses can single-handedly cuddle him into the dirt with a range-16 attack and auto-trigger makes him very problematic against the guild. If he gets paralyzed by any faction and nothing stays in combat range of him, he is likely dead and since his starting SS pool was so small, the rest of his crew is down roughly a 4-5 point model against the opposing crew because he NEEDS to get as many SS as possible. Its an interesting debate to me between Seamus and Nicodem. In a head-to-head, my money is on Nicodem. aSeamus 1WP vs. Rigor Mortis = dead aSeamus. Nicodem could keep aSeamus paralyzed the entire game. EDIT: And who is troll-voting Kirai and McMourning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpsele Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I have voted Nico because out of the 3 i have played he is the worst one. I have not got enough game to really mean anything. But i am sure that McMourning and Kirai are the 2 best one. I have played enought game with McMourning to Know that he is not put down by none Living enemys and Kirai i only played 3 games and Wow She is great. that is my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I applaud this effort but I must admit I am a bit skeptical. Rathnard you are a smart guy and I love your model analysis. However those who feel rezzers are weakest and have been playing them for quite a long time are I am sure at least reasonably bright and dedicated gamers. While I prefer not to label an entire faction as 'bad' (or variations thereof), I don't disagree with what the experienced Resser players are saying and I don't expect to delve into this faction and suddenly "prove them wrong". That's not really what this is about. This is more of a personal challenge. I enjoy taking sub-par models/crews and getting the best I can out of them. So as above, when "the interwebz" says a given crew or model is no good, I can't help thinking of that as a challenge to see what can be done with them. Besides, my knowledge on the models for most factions are pretty good, with the exception of Ressers. So this is good opportunity to 'complete the circle' so to speak. Regarding Mercs, I already have Von Schill, Killjoy and Mr Daw. I've used all three a bit and like most others, have come to find that they're all very good options. So it's for that reason I'll generally be avoiding them (where's the challenge in using great models? ), although I'll probably include Killjoy and Mr Daw now and again purely because they're so fun to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Molly has a use btw, it's filthy as sin but I'm not spilling the beans just yet ;-) I Will get her totem to cast philosophy of uncertainty get molly to bring it back get her totem to cast philosophy of uncertainty also molly can philosophy of uncertainty as well, so if something tries to kill her probably will end up dead too ---------- Post added at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ---------- EDIT: And who is troll-voting Kirai and McMourning? It's not troll voting >.< Nicodem can pretty much also generate infinite corpse counters and seamus is super scary I would go as far and say Nicodem is better of the ressers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Why not jack Daw and killjoy? they are option open to the ressers and are able to use the better than the other faction, it like looking at Leveticus, but ignoring any outcast undead model Because the are not in the faction, and as I understand it, this was all inspired by the claims the faction is the weakest. If you go using Outcast models, it doesn't seem to me to help test the claim. Unless the designers say that the intent is that Rezzers are different, and we're designed to be used with Outcasts more so than other factions, and that we are not supposed to be testing the merits of the faction standing alone by themselves. Fair enough I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Because the are not in the faction, and as I understand it, this was all inspired by the claims the faction is the weakest. If you go using Outcast models, it doesn't seem to me to help test the claim. Unless the designers say that the intent is that Rezzers are different, and we're designed to be used with Outcasts more so than other factions, and that we are not supposed to be testing the merits of the faction standing alone by themselves. Fair enough I suppose. But it's not different Ramos can use the guardian to great effect Lilith's grow list requires the desperate merc's Where would Marcus be if he only used Arcanist beast if you want fluff reason, the resser's are just as likely to get help from non ressers as just as much as other resser. since they are not an single organised faction, like the others, but a group of people that happen to work together when it suits them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Rathnard, then I would say use Seamus. Nicodem requires a ton of models to really explore, and he doesn't suffer from the same synergy problems. Nicodem's issues don't show up well until you get into tournament play. His problem is that he has very limited number of strategies and schemes that he can get VPs from, and he has a hard time getting high differentials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'll sit perched on this thread if you end up going Seamus, always enjoy myself some Seamusin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 But it's not different I guess I feel like it is, only because it's the difference in having Mercs as options and almost requiring them to round out the faction. Case in point is the number of winning Rezzer tournament lists I have seen that include Von Schill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierowmaniac Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I Will get her totem to cast philosophy of uncertainty get molly to bring it back get her totem to cast philosophy of uncertainty also molly can philosophy of uncertainty as well, so if something tries to kill her probably will end up dead too ---------- Post added at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ---------- It's not troll voting >.< Nicodem can pretty much also generate infinite corpse counters and seamus is super scary I would go as far and say Nicodem is better of the ressers Doing the Molly/Totem trick realise very heavily on having lots of high number cards in hand and your totem getting within 3" of an opponent without getting taken down in one hit. I've only managed to get the right cards twice (once with the red joker in hand for the damage) and only once re summoning the totem after. Yes its a neat trick but not worth 11SS for its reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierceSternum Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 4 votes for Kirai... lol... What color is the sky in THEIR world? Aside from the obvious JOKE of giving Kirai 4 votes, I think that McMourning is 2nd most powerful by a considerable margin over Nicodem and then Seamus follows the pack by several lengths. Still trying to figure out the Kirai votes. I suspect its people that play other factions that are tired of seeing rezzers complain about things. (Which I can understand to a degree) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I disagree Nicodem first Then Kari Followed by Seamus And the good doctor last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I disagree Nicodem first Then Kari Followed by Seamus And the good doctor last he's my favorite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonfunk Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I am still a newbie at this game but voted for Nico....He is my first master and I have yet to win a game with him....I would like to see some out of the box idea's on how to run him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well it's probably safe to assume that Seamus has won. Expect to see a "Rathnards adventures with Seamus" thread at some point soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well it's probably safe to assume that Seamus has won. Expect to see a "Rathnards adventures with Seamus" thread at some point soon. Excellent choice sir. Leave my Pimp Daddy alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'll find that very interesting, especially since you've decided to stay in faction a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierowmaniac Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yeah I think staying 'in faction' is what will benifit any analysis of the resser faction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpiffypants Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) I picked Saemus, but not due to thinking hes the weakest, more because hes the easiest to play wrong. Nico's concept is pretty simple. Advance toward objective and create the right units, while disabling and or buffing your own. A lot like Montgomery in WW2. So long as you're good at thinking ahead, and getting the right mix down (and not getting caught flat footed!) you win. Saemus has a one-shot weapon with a range of 8. It's easier to counter the one-shot aspect with a high card, soulstone, or just cover. If it fails you're left 8 inches away and you don't have anymore offensive abilities since Drain life has a range of 6. Plus to get the really amazing ability of an additional card and some life you have to be within 6 anyhow. If I decide that I'm going to deal out damage I have to put a lot of effort, and some pretty high cards to get what I want. That'll usually leave him pretty exposed, and you'll start going downhill fast. The comments about a low cache.. eh.. I don't need more then 4. I don't see the validity in more, he should never be in position to use that many ap's (or take that many hits). Finally terrifying... you people know he can get up to Terrifying 14/16? Average wp is 6, so that's about 31.48% chance of survival. Biggest problem is his 0 action stops working at the end phase, so you gotta commit him early. Saemus's plays best when hes teamed up with Molly who offshoots all of his weaknesses (and gets him Avatar state pretty quick, which is just AWESOME). The fact that he needs Molly to do it, pushes Nico further ahead. People get confused playing him turning him into a "summoner", which isn't his focus. Edited June 14, 2012 by MrSpiffypants Math before coffee = bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 One model I have yet to try to mitigate some of Seamus's lack of ability to affect the non living is the Carrion Effigy. On paper it seems like it ought to allow a lot of Seamus's abilities to work that normally don't, but he is kind of a fragile little guy. Anyone try these two together yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) How does Molly help Seamus manifest faster? He can give himself Terrifying-> 14 first two turns and consistently manifest turn 3. The only other method is the copy cat killer thing and I do not see how molly helps that. For SS cache, running 4... I dunno. If you play him a lot, maybe you just play him better than I do, but I cannot imagine having only 4SS for the fire I have ever come under as him. I needed to cheat constantly to keep him around long enough for him to have real impact on the game. Now, I am likely crippled by not having a lot of regular Seamus experience. I've only started playing him since Avatar, which I go to quickly, so its likely that I do not have all sorts of tricks down. For Carrion Effigy, his aura does not help terrifying at all, if thats what you meant. It can strip Immune to Influence, but that does not help terrifying. Some of his WP targetted spells I suppose... Edited June 14, 2012 by Gruesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 The Carrion Effigy will not help you affect more models with Terrifying as Terrifying, in its description, states it only affects living models. Removing a model's immunity to Morale duels, if it has one, still doesn't turn them into living models. Mr.: Could you explain how Molly offsets Seamus having a Terrible Def, and how she helps him avatar very fast. I've run Molly with Seamus for the last 8 months, and I love her fluff wise, and I always pair them, but I don't personally see how your statement actually works. I'm honestly interested to see if I've missed something. In my own experience Molly isn't worth her SS cost, and Von Schill or the Dead Rider are always more effective than her, even if you intend to avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpiffypants Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 It's the +3 movement. Utilizing that 14 rush and and popping your terrifying up to 14 with your 0 action. Nice threat range but the fun hasn't stopped. My defense doesn't have to beat the total of the shot, it has to beat what the defense of the guy I'm in close combat with. That'll mean he using 3 cards in a best case (for Seamus) scenario. 1x for the terror, 1x for the hit, 1x for the schmuck's defense. With 14 movement you should have positioned so you're blocking Los, or at worst minimizing cc retaliations. Maybe your opposing master is a cc guy: little different, same principal. 1x card for the charge and 2 ap for the charge, leaves Seamus with 12 wounds with at best (Lady J) one straight flip, then a double negative. He will survive and models will die around him, healing him like crazy! I haven't used any Ss yet. Hard to kill, 4 soul stones and 12 wounds, one hit should never kill you. More detail later, in car on iPhone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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