Who wants to Focus/Channel? And when?

[MrKittens]

I've been staring at the rules for Focus and Channel for a little while now, and I can't seem to figure out when, or for what, they would be useful. It's not like the extra + on the damage is added to your total, so, wouldn't making two attacks just be better? You run a chance of two attacks hitting, so it's not like you've taken two AP to insure at least one hits them.

I know there are a couple of effects that require Focus to hit; I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here. What Masters, and in what circumstances does the Focus attack come up?

[Gensuke626]

All masters want to consider focus when their target is in cover.

Also remember that if you have no negative twists on your damage flip, you can cheat damage, where as if you have any negative twists, you can't cheat...so if you focus and you would normally receive 1 negative twist, you're at flat and can cheat if you have a good card in your hand...like say...the Red Joker.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The reason you want to focus or channel is two reasons:

1: makes it somewhat easier to hit or make the casting number, as it gives you an extra flip for your attack.

2: it is one of the only ways that if you hit you can most likely cheat dmg. In my experience the most common dmg flip is a negative twist for not being 6+ higher than the opposing target number. That gives you a negative twist on dmg. If you had focused or channeled, your positive twist for dmg will offset the negative and give you the ability to cheat, even if you are only 1 number lower.

For guild this can be very useful as the positive twist can help you offset a model being in cover. 2 Shots at a negative twist to hit are far less likely to do anything than one focused shot.

Additionally sometimes it's not dmg you are going for, sometimes it's a status effect. I run Molly quite a bit with Seamus, and I always take a grave spirit with her. It's casting is not that great, and it doesn't really have much else going for it, but while attached to Molly as her totem it gives him access to Shocking Truth, and since he can only cast magical extension once a round anyway you might as well make that one cast the best it can be. The fact that the severe effect does dmg as well as paralyzes makes it a credible threat.

So there are the occasional reason to focus or channel, you just have to make certain of the times you want to.

GL!

[LupusFerreus]

I only realised this myself last night, demo'ing the game to a friend. Now I'm still pretty new myself, so it was a surprise to see that damage can only be flipped on a straight flip or higher. I will definitely be considering focusing and channelling in future. Especially channelling for my Terror Tots' grow. Channel is very good for those essential spells as you get to both cast and damage (eg spells such as Fire Blast - Sonnia, Transposition - Lilith)

Also imagine Focus on Lady J (as she has melee expert for another attack) = on hit and :+fate on damage not considering any modifiers (where red joker can be flipped in either here or one melee expert attack for SUPER DAMAGE!).

Edited June 6, 2012 by LupusFerreus

[Sholto]

Malifaux is often about getting the right effects in the right sequence, especially at those critical Turn 3/ Turn 4 moments when it all hangs in the balance. Get that Paralysed result or that Blast on dmg can be the difference between winning or losing sometimes, and Focus/ Channel are another means of making sure you get the result you need when you need it.

It comes at the cost of AP, but that's a choice you have to make.

[Guardian]

I only realised this myself last night, demo'ing the game to a friend. Now I'm still pretty new myself, so it was a surprise to see that damage can only be flipped on a straight flip or higher. I will definitely be considering focusing and channelling in future. Especially channelling for my Terror Tots' grow. Channel is very good for those essential spells as you get to both cast and damage (eg spells such as Fire Blast - Sonnia, Transposition - Lilith)

Also imagine Focus on Lady J (as she has melee expert for another attack) = on hit and :+fate on damage not considering any modifiers (where red joker can be flipped in either here or one melee expert attack for SUPER DAMAGE!).

You are absolutely correct sir!

Edited June 6, 2012 by Guardian

[LupusFerreus]

I thought that the rulebook states: "(2) Focus: The model performs a melee or ranged Strike. The Strike's Attack and Damage Flip receive :+fate"

[Fetid Strumpet]

Please see Rules Manual Page 39:

(2) Focus:This model performs a melee or ranged strike. The strike's Attack Flip and damage flip receive . Weapons that require more than 1 AP to make a strike cannot be focused.

[Guardian]

Please see Rules Manual Page 39:

omg

Im playing this wrong forever!

Well, great, thnx!

Somehow, the attack +flip was good enough for me, since my primary master is LJ!

will edit my post!

[GoodPhule]

I was with you all the way up to simply...

damage can only be flipped on a straight flip or higher.

Just to be 100% clear should it be - damage can only be cheated on a straight flip or higher?

[96p]

I Thought you couldn't channel Magical Extension ?

[GoodPhule]

Looks ok - card says:

(1) Magical Extension (CC: */Rst: * /Rg: *) This spell may be cast only once per activation. Cast one of the connected Master’s (1) spells. During this casting, this model may use a Soulstone to change its starting total.

Can't see why you wouldn't be able to?

[LupusFerreus]

Yes sorry I should have said cheated.

[96p]

I thougt the effect of magical extension would be that you cast a spell of the master, but through channeling you would only channel ME not its effect and therefore get no bonuses on the masterst spell.

[Sholto]

I have always played it like a psuedo-ability that lets the totem cast a Master's (1) Spell, rather than cast ME then, if you are successful, you cast another spell.

In short, everything I have read on these forums confirms you can Channel ME, and by doing so Channel the Master's (1) Spell you want to use.

[Mike3838]

Yea, Magical Extension is a (1) spell and as such can be channelled

Mike

[Dustcrusher]

I find channeling handy for the Essence of Power- I have it cast Ice Pillars so Rasputina can focus on damage and/or buffing.

[dunce002917]

Focus/Channeling is useful against Zoriada... since you get a negative flip if you use 1 AP to attack her but you get a positive flip if you focus or use a 2 AP attack.

Also, this will be useful if you're looking for a suit for an effect (like Nino's headshot).

Sometimes, when your target is almost dead, and there are no legal target within range, focusing your attack will almost guarantee a kill (unless you flip the black joker).

[MrKittens]

I'm confused about something, perhaps it's due to my understanding of how Focus works. When it comes to damage, the point about adding a + to be able to cheat your damage is well taken, and valid. However, unless I'm mistaken, Focusing doesn't make your attacks more accurate... at all. In fact, it's worse. There are a few scenarios I'll lay out to describe my view, someone check my logic.

Scenario one, the next two cards in your deck are a very high card, and a very low card. You attack once with one attack, and hit. You attack again with another AP, and miss. Two AP used, one hit.

Scenario two, same card setup. You Focus for 2 AP, you get both cards, and elect to use the higher one, since they're not added together. Discard the lower one. Same AP used, same effect.

Scenario three, your next two cards are low. You attack twice, miss both times.

Scenario four, same cards as three. You Focus, but don't get any good cards, as above, and miss your one shot. Same effect.

Now, the next four are why Focusing is usually bad!

Scenario five, your next two cards are high. You shoot twice, get high cards, and hit. 2 AP, two hits, yay!

Scenario six, your next two cards are high. You shoot once, hit once, and waste a good card. Yay?

Scenario seven, your next two cards are a high card, and the Black Joker. You shoot once, and hit. You shoot a second time, and, obviously, miss.

Scenario eight, you Focus with the above cards. Now, normally it wouldn't matter too much, but that Black Joker there? That's turned your good card into nothingness. You've increased your chance to get the Black Joker, failed to increase your chance to hit, and forced your only shot this turn to miss.

How is Focusing good, outside the case that you want that + twist to cheat a damage card? Unless my understanding of the mechanics is flawed somehow, Focusing is the last thing you want to do if you want to score more hits!

[Ozz]

MrKittens. You focus to hit, eg with a ranged attack or spell, when someone is in cover and you receive a negative on the attack meaning you are unable to cheat the flip, so you focus, and are able to cheat the flip. Yes the chance you get the Black Joker on a normal flip is increased, but still in general unlikely, and if you didn't focus you would have had the BJ on a damage flip so still do nothing (granted you used an extra AP but that was a risk you were willing to take if you made the focus strike in the first place)

The other time is when as you said at the end of your post, and you really want to be able to cheat the damage. It is a simple method of making things more reliable for you to get the desired outcome that you, the attacker want.

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

But as you stated, there are certainly drawbacks to focusing hence it is only occasionally that it is done.

[Joel]

Performed my first focus strike in a game today, with tuco:

Nimbled and used veil appearance to move 7" towards his gunline (and make myself harder to hit), then focused a shotgun strike into niño. The double positive flips (from nemesis and focus), allowed me to cheat the red joker out of my hand and blow niño's head off!

Good times.

[dunce002917]

Performed my first focus strike in a game today, with tuco:

Nimbled and used veil appearance to move 7" towards his gunline (and make myself harder to hit), then focused a shotgun strike into niño. The double positive flips (from nemesis and focus), allowed me to cheat the red joker out of my hand and blow niño's head off!

Good times.

Good form kind sir.

[Cats Laughing]

In most of my previous games I rarely channeled or focused (never I think), but in my last game I played on some proper terrain and all the cover on the board forced me to focus and channel almost every cast I made. I found it very effective, as the few times I didn't focus/channel into cover I invariably missed due to being unable to cheat the -flip. The +flip on damage was also nice, occasionally even cancelling out my opponent's hard to wound and allowing some cheated severe damage.

[LupusFerreus]

Performed my first focus strike in a game today, with tuco:

Nimbled and used veil appearance to move 7" towards his gunline (and make myself harder to hit), then focused a shotgun strike into niño. The double positive flips (from nemesis and focus), allowed me to cheat the red joker out of my hand and blow niño's head off!

Good times.

That's for not coming to his rescue! Good form.

[Gensuke626]

First I'm going to start by saying, you're looking at eight very specific scenarios that are highly dependent on being able to predict the Random number generator that is the 54 card deck. You also make the mistake of taking the flips in a vacuum and not taking into account several factors such as Zoraida.

I'm confused about something, perhaps it's due to my understanding of how Focus works. When it comes to damage, the point about adding a + to be able to cheat your damage is well taken, and valid. However, unless I'm mistaken, Focusing doesn't make your attacks more accurate... at all. In fact, it's worse. There are a few scenarios I'll lay out to describe my view, someone check my logic.

Generally speaking a positive twist is an accuracy boost in the same way that a Re-roll is on a six sided die. Mathematically, look at it this way. You need to beat a TN of 12 with a stat of 5. Generally you have about a 50% chance to flip a 7 or better.

Out of the 54 card deck there are 29 cards that would grant success in the above scenario. That leaves 25 cards that would result in a failure. That's a 53% chance of success on a single flip. If your flip is 2 take the best, then your chance of success is approximately 80%. The math for this (if I did it correctly) is (25/54)*(24/53)=.203... rounded to .20. so 20% chance to fail as 25 out of 54 cards fail and then 24 out of 53 cards fail assuming that the first card failed. As there is a 20% chance to fail, this generally indicates an 80% success rate.

This also assumes that the deck has all 54 cards, so you have no control hand AND this is the first flip of a given game. The cards in one's hand greatly affect the probability of the deck's output, so discussing this without setting up scenarios that include hands are sort of moot.

Now, onto your scenarios...

Scenario one, the next two cards in your deck are a very high card, and a very low card. You attack once with one attack, and hit. You attack again with another AP, and miss. Two AP used, one hit.

Scenario two, same card setup. You Focus for 2 AP, you get both cards, and elect to use the higher one, since they're not added together. Discard the lower one. Same AP used, same effect.

This scenario describes shooting at someone who is not in cover or Zoraida...This technically is accurate with the exception that the observer already knows the outcome of the Random Number Generator

Scenario three, your next two cards are low. You attack twice, miss both times.

Scenario four, same cards as three. You Focus, but don't get any good cards, as above, and miss your one shot. Same effect.

As above, this shows that the observer already knows the outcome of the RNG.

Now, the next four are why Focusing is usually bad!

I doubt that, but do go on.

Scenario five, your next two cards are high. You shoot twice, get high cards, and hit. 2 AP, two hits, yay!

Scenario six, your next two cards are high. You shoot once, hit once, and waste a good card. Yay?

You are neglecting to mention that you also get a to damage with this hit which can offset hard to wound, or close flips to hit. In addition you are neglecting to take into account that assuming that both cards would cause a hit, it's more likely that you can activate an available trigger if two cards are flipped. This second point is very important in some cases...like, say, when a Victoria is trying to turn herself into a blender or Nino needs a Headshot.

Scenario seven, your next two cards are a high card, and the Black Joker. You shoot once, and hit. You shoot a second time, and, obviously, miss.

Scenario eight, you Focus with the above cards. Now, normally it wouldn't matter too much, but that Black Joker there? That's turned your good card into nothingness. You've increased your chance to get the Black Joker, failed to increase your chance to hit, and forced your only shot this turn to miss.

It's a possibility, but the scenario you are suggesting is at best a 1/54 chance...a little bit less than 2% of the time.

How is Focusing good, outside the case that you want that + twist to cheat a damage card? Unless my understanding of the mechanics is flawed somehow, Focusing is the last thing you want to do if you want to score more hits!

So...you set up a slew of straw man arguments in an attempt to show that Focusing is not beneficial. Let's add in some things that actually happen in games, shall we?

Scenario 9. You are shooting at a target in cover. As you are shooting at a target in cover you have to strikes against said target. Let's assume that the model in question, regardless of anything else, is going to have a defense total of 12 and the attacking model has a CB of 5. That means that one needs to flip a 7 or better to hit at all. Let's also assume that this is the first flip of the turn, Your initiative flip was a 6 and you won initiative, and your hand is Black Joker, 4, 6, 8, 11, 13. The deck, in it's current state, is 47 cards deep with 26 cards at 7+ and 21 cards below seven. The odds are fairly favorable.

You take 2 non focused strikes, both strikes have . Your chances of hitting are approximately 30%. The first card flipped has a 26/47 chance of being 7+ and the second has a 25/46 chance, and as BOTH need to be 7+ or the individual strike fails, the formula we look at should be (26/47)*(25/46)=.3 which is the chance that both cards will hit. For the second strike, the probability changes depending on exactly what cards are drawn, but the odds won't get much better or worse. For each shot, there is a 70% chance or so that the strike will miss, so the chances of missing twice are about 49%, the chances of hitting twice are about 9% and the chances of hitting once and missing once are about 42%.

If you instead take 1 focused strike, your chances of hitting are 26/47 or 55%. That is on the flip and the flip alone. As there are no applied because focus gave us a , my chances of hitting are 100% as I can simply play the 8, 11, or 13 from my hand to ensure a hit. On top of that, my chances to cause severe damage against a target that is not hard to wound is also 100% as focusing gives me a to damage as well, so if I equal 12 (which I won't thanks to my control hand) I have , no twists at 1-5, on 6-10 and :+fate on 11+. In any event, if I flip worse than severe, I can play an 11 or 13 from my hand to cause severe damage.

So Mr. Kittens...I'll let you decide if focusing is ever worth doing or not. :Smug_Puppet2:

Edited June 15, 2012 by Gensuke626