New Rules FAQ/Errata Website Discussion Thread

[Keltheos]

A place to discuss the updated Rules page on Malifaux.com.

Model Clarifications

Clarifications and Erratas

FAQ

Edited June 1, 2012 by Ratty

[Sholto]

@Aramoro - remember that Colette could always Slow To Die and Use Soulstone for a Healing Flip to avoid being one-shotted like that. Although now whichever Showgirl she changes places with won't be able to do that, so will probably die to the one-shot damage Colette just missed.

So under the new rules, you have more chance of losing a model using this Trigger, but also less chance of putting Wds on Colette.

[Aramoro]

@Aramoro - remember that Colette could always Slow To Die and Use Soulstone for a Healing Flip to avoid being one-shotted like that. Although now whichever Showgirl she changes places with won't be able to do that, so will probably die to the one-shot damage Colette just missed.

So under the new rules, you have more chance of losing a model using this Trigger, but also less chance of putting Wds on Colette.

Mannequins \0/

[Sholto]

Ramos: "Colette, how did you and your girls survive that encounter?"

Colette <shrugs>: "Mannequins."

Ramos: "But the giant Neverborn creature was going to cut you in half and then suddenly you weren't there. What happened?"

Colette <stealing a piece of Ramos' cake while he is not looking>: "Mannequins."

Ramos: "And then that oddly dressed woman with the giant hammer, she ran up to you and then turned into a-"

Colette <stealing another piece of cake as Ramos' back is turned>: "Mannequin."

Ramos: "Is there anything they cannot do? I am quite parched from all this excitement, and could really use a cup of tea."

Colette <gesturing>: "Mannequin!"

Ramos <takes a sip>: "A lovely cup of tea, thank you. But where has all my cake gone?"

Colette <coy smile>: "Mannequins?"

[magicpockets]

Firstly, thanks for the work that's gone into this - I think generally speaking they will be useful docs to have available. However, I do think there's a few problems with the wording which has been used -

========

Effects

========

An effect meets all of the following criteria:

It is generated during an Encounter

It sits 'on' a model

- Paralyzed sits on the model which is Paralyzed.

- Conduit sits on the Voodoo Doll.

- Nurse's Massive Dose sits on the target of the Spell.

Has a defined end time

- Excessive Bleeding lasts until the end of the Encounter.

- Wild Heart lasts until the end of the Turn.

- Damage Effects end once the damage has been applied and you have started Damage Resolution.

This means something which doesn't have a defined end time cannot be an effect

When do the effects from my Spells and Abilities end?

Unless otherwise stated they end in the Resolve Effect Step of the Closing Phase

Okay. So given the "effects have a defined end time" rule there are no longer effects which don't have an undefined end time as it needs to have a defined end time to be considered an effect? This means this (i.e. quoted above) part of the FAQ would never be used?

Effects on a buried model resolve as indicated in their descriptions.

So anything without a defined end time now doesn't resolve when something is buried as it can't be classed as an effect and therefore be assumed to end at the end of the turn.

Practical Implications

1. If Hamelin gives a model insignificant it can be shrugged off as it says it lasts until the end of the encounter (defined end time). If a Rat gives something insignificant it doesn't specify when it ends so is not an effect - that means it also now lasts until the end of the encounter and can't be shrugged off.

2. Bette receives Blessings of Desolation from Levi which doesn't end as it has no defined end time so is not an effect, so don't resolve at the end of the turn or whilst she's buried. (Hell yes btw)

========

Kill Yourself

========

Can a model kill or sacrifice itself?

Yes. Unless the Talent/Spell causes a fixed number of wounds and those wounds would drop the model to 0 Wounds.

So this has changed again? Now Masters can Drain Souls on themselves and sacrifice themselves (Ramos/Hamelin) and we're back that models can kill themselves with certain DG? Also, this seems to now preclude that the chance of a spell going off doesn't matter - if it theoretically could go off you can't do it?

============

Guardian Errata

============

UPDATE: - 'Stalwart' should say "(0) Stalwart: 2. Friendly models within the gain Armor +2. The Guardian suffers 1 wound each time any of those models suffers 1 or more damage."

Lets assume the wording on effects is wrong and things which don't have a defined end time are effects (in this case armour+2). This wording means if a model (let's say a Pale Rider for example) is at any point in the aura it gains armour+2 (creating an effect on the Pale Rider). Then it can move away and keep armour+2 until the end of the turn (or, as it stands, for the rest of the game).

Should this say Whilst within the friendly models gain armour+2 until Stalwart ends or they leave the or something?

============

Hamelin and Crew

============

As we've now had a full model errata, can we assume there will be no other foreseeable changes to Hamelin and his crew? It would be cool to know that so people know whether to learn to play against him or if we have imminent changes which tone him down (I'm not saying if he needs them, just asking if they're coming)

Edited June 1, 2012 by magicpockets

[Doc Gigawatts]

Thanks for the errata.

Apologies if this is already obvious but having looked at the measuring errata I'm just wanted to clarify melee ranges. Since measuring is only carried out either vertically or horizontally does this mean a model must be within its melee range in both dimensions. Effectively making the melee range a cylinder rather than a bubble.

i.e if my model has melee range of 2" my opponent could be standing on a ledge 2" up from me and 2" away horizontally. (2.8" actual distance) and I would still be in melee?

I assume it is this as melee isn't mentioned in the list of horizontally 'only' measurements.

Thanks

[Sholto]

Apologies if this is already obvious but having looked at the measuring errata I'm just wanted to clarify melee ranges.

This is dealt with on pg 39 of the RM:

Elevated Terrain and Melee

Models wishing to attack targets on elevated terrain determine their distance to the target as

follows:

Flat Elevations:

• Models attacking down a flat elevation add the difference between the target’s Ht and

the elevation’s Ht to their distance to the target. • Models attacking up a flat elevation add the difference between their Ht and the flat

elevation’s Ht to the distance to the target.

Sloped Elevations:

• Models attacking up or down sloped elevations determine distance to their target as normal.

[Doc Gigawatts]

doh, knew it would be obvious. Thanks.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Doc Gigawatts

[ForceVoid]

First, thanks for putting this together, I love consolidated errata!

One concern though, page 5 of the FAQ document details that a "push" is a movement effect. Later on that page:

Q: Do I get a Disengaging Strike when a model leaves my Melee Range due to a Placement Effect?

A: No, you only get Disengaging Strikes in response to Movement Effects.

This would seem to indicate that pushes generate disengaging strikes.

Again, thanks for all your efforts!

[ThePandaDirector]

I think my brain melted a little from just scanning all that, but the amount of work that must have gone into compiling it is certainly impressive.

Not quite as impressive as this though, but close enough =]

[Sholto]

Amazing! I have never seen a panda teach a man how to play basketball before! The stupid man appears to be trying to climb into the hoop, however. Stupid man

---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

One concern though, page 5 of the FAQ document details that a "push" is a movement effect. Later on that page:

Q: Do I get a Disengaging Strike when a model leaves my Melee Range due to a Placement Effect?

A: No, you only get Disengaging Strikes in response to Movement Effects.

This would seem to indicate that pushes generate disengaging strikes.

Again, thanks for all your efforts!

Page 34 of the RM:

Pushes are move effects and are affected by movement penalties, but do not generate

disengaging Strikes

[Csonti]

============

Hamelin and Crew

============

As we've now had a full model errata, can we assume there will be no other foreseeable changes to Hamelin and his crew? It would be cool to know that so people know whether to learn to play against him or if we have imminent changes which tone him down (I'm not saying if he needs them, just asking if they're coming)

From Keltheos in this thread:

Never fear, Hamelin and Nekima will get their turn. We wanted this out first.

[Mydnight]

A lot of stuff to take in. I will spend much time in meditation as there are little nuances that will have quite an impact.

If you could add a bit more of a clarification that total wounds suffered by a model is the total damage dealt (as Ratty clarified in this thread: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?24756-On-damage-triggers-and-wound-prevention&p=307307#post307307 ), I believe it would help us McMourning players

Another question regarding blinding flash: if Collette swaps with another showgirl who becomes the target of the attack, does this start a new duel or is the attack resolved against the new target?

[ForceVoid]

Page 34 of the RM:

Pushes are move effects and are affected by movement penalties, but do not generate

disengaging Strikes

True, but as this FAQ is targetted as a new player resource, it might be a bit confusing.

[Ratty]

This means something which doesn't have a defined end time cannot be an effect

But all the examples you give do have a defined end time. Note the FAQ item gives 3 examples of defined end times.

- Excessive Bleeding lasts until the end of the Encounter.

- Wild Heart lasts until the end of the Turn.

- Damage Effects end once the damage has been applied and you have started Damage Resolution.

It's defined in the Rulebook that any effect which doesn't state an end time ends in the Resolve effects phase. But I will probably change the phrase to "Has an end time that can be defined".

Lets assume the wording on effects is wrong and things which don't have a defined end time are effects (in this case armour+2). This wording means if a model (let's say a Pale Rider for example) is at any point in the aura it gains armour+2 (creating an effect on the Pale Rider). Then it can move away and keep armour+2 until the end of the turn (or, as it stands, for the rest of the game).

Should this say Whilst within the friendly models gain armour+2 until Stalwart ends or they leave the or something?

I think the issue is that you are seeing the effect as sitting on the Pale Rider. The Effect from Auras sits on the model that the aura is on. IE the Guardian has an aura, with a defined end time, the resolve effect phase. If a model comes into the area of the aura they gain Armor +2, when they leave the aura they lose the Armor +2, they can't have it as there is no effect on the Pale Rider and it's not in the aura of the Guardians effect.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Ratty

[nilus]

One request(or maybe I missed it)

Is there a way we can download a printer friendly version of this, If you print from the site you get the background image colors which eat up ink

[Buhallin]

Interesting changes. Going to take a bit to assimilate, but at the very least I'm glad to see a Mosquito fix in there

One request for future updates: Would it be possible to highlight "new" changes for each revision? It's a hefty list, and the ability to quickly see what is new and what was previously known would be a big help.

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------

One request(or maybe I missed it)

Is there a way we can download a printer friendly version of this, If you print from the site you get the background image colors which eat up ink

The Rules page itself has PDF links that look relatively printer-friendly, although they do have a background color to them.

[Ratty]

One request(or maybe I missed it)

Is there a way we can download a printer friendly version of this, If you print from the site you get the background image colors which eat up ink

You can just go to the web page and print with Background turned off. Though you will lose the Q. and A. off the front of FAQ items. Don't worry though I will be working on making the PDFs even more printer friendly over time.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Ratty

[Sybaris]

Thanks for all the work!

6.Never fear, Hamelin and Nekima will get their turn. We wanted this out first.

and that made my day

[Csonti]

This is the text after the 2nd picture in the Errata document:

In this example, the Onryo moves 4” and then climbs 2” for a total of 8” moved. (note the Onryo’s base is placed in contact with the edge it climbed)

Am I interpreting the last sentence correctly that after you climb the wall you "gain" a free movement of one base length because you place the model beside the wall on the roof? The picture shows this but I always played as you have to pay to "enter" the roof too.

[nilus]

You can just go to the web page and print with Background turned off. Though you will lose the Q. and A. off the front of FAQ items. Don't worry though I will be working on making the PDFGs even more printer friendly over time.

Thanks Rat-man

[Poltron]

Thank you for the hard work!

I love the pictures in the Erratas, its gonna help a lot of new players to quickly grab the basics.

[ForceVoid]

You can just go to the web page and print with Background turned off. Though you will lose the Q. and A. off the front of FAQ items. Don't worry though I will be working on making the PDFs even more printer friendly over time.

Is there a way to resize/shape the errata entries so that they could be pasted over the original, outdated text in the rules? I find that to be an easy way to be sure I am not looking in multiple places for specific models.

(Note to self, buy some blank adhesive label paper)

[roboshmoo]

How do I determine which model is the target of a Scheme if it's Replaced by another model or models?

When a target of a Scheme is Replaced, the new model is now the target. If the model was Replaced by more than one model, the player with the Scheme can choose which of those models is now the target.

How exactly does this work with schemes like kidnap? say I choose 3 Steampunk Abominations and they are replaced by 1 Desolation Engine. Do I just need to kill the 1 desolation engine to get credit for all 3 kidnap victims?

[Ratty]

How exactly does this work with schemes like kidnap? say I choose 3 Steampunk Abominations and they are replaced by 1 Desolation Engine. Do I just need to kill the 1 desolation engine to get credit for all 3 kidnap victims?

Yep..

[wrabbit37]

Expanding on that, if I pick two Coryphee and they combine into the Duet, now the Duet is my target. If it splits into two Coryphee again, I only pick one of the models it creates, so I only need to kill one of the Coryphee, right?