How can a Ressurectionnist win against the Neverborn

[morpsele]

Hi Guys,

I have played a couple of game against the neverborn and in all my games the crew that i never want to ear someone bring are the Neverborn. I have played against Pandora, Lilith, Collodi and zoraida, and zoraida alone.

I have never manage to do anything really effective against any of them exept Lilith. Lilith crew was a growing list so it was even slower then my McMourning crew so i was happy for once.

I need help against them since alot of the time i just wont accept a game against that crew.

And i think it is not fair for player in our Flg that has them.

Thanks

[omnivision6]

I don't even know where to start. Never refuse a game based on crew. It makes you look like a jerk. Sorry for being so harsh, but it needs to be said. With that, give use some more info about your collection. How long have you been playing? What masters do you have? Do you stick to one master in order to get good with him or jump around? More info please.

[FoolWithTheFez]

For general advice, you can start here:

http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Neverborn

Read the tacticas on the Masters and Minions that you have trouble with. Not just the "how to beat" section, but the whole article. It is easier to fight an opponent when you know what they are capable of.

Also, on the "advice that probably does you no good" front, play Kirai. She scary.

[rancor709]

Mcmourning is a great master neverborn tend to be harsh matchup for him due to low wp. That said what models do you have? Mcm needs to have rogue necromancy to summon the model helps a ton. Vonschill and dead rider also help a ton vs nb.

[morpsele]

Ok Sorry Guy's i did not go in more details. I have Every Master in the res expt Molly. I have a bunch of model since i bought all the box set, I have bought up the rogue and i have played him really often.

I tend to play McMourning the most beacause we are in a League right now and that i know him best . (About 90% of my game played is McMourning) I have not played with Kirai just yet cause i bought her last week.

Last time i check i am missing only 13 Model in the Res crew and that is counting every Avatar.

I have not yet declined an offer to play against The Neverborn but it then to be the Most boring games i have played of yet. The one against Collodi was not that bad but still not the best games ever.

I Read alot of the tactica on The pull my finger. (sorry Fool but i have played about 40 games already and the pull my finger was in my favorite before starting the game)

I know that the ressers arent the best but i love to play crew that tend to be a little week ( aka Wood elfin fantasy and demon in 40k) But like i said it's just not that losing is a probleme it's that i'm not having fun playing against them.

Thank you guys

Ps: For Von Schill i play him almost all the time and the rider is brought really often.

[Dustcrusher]

I don't even know where to start. Never refuse a game based on crew. It makes you look like a jerk. Sorry for being so harsh, but it needs to be said.

Guess that makes me a jerk, then.

There are caveats, however:

1) Ask if he will play another crew this time. Facing the same couple of masters all the time is going to get old, especially if the games are mostly one-sided. It's too easy to jump to the conclusion that your crew is too weak or his crew is too strong when you've been beaten for the tenth time in a row. Facing a different crew will help.

2) If all he has is Neverborn, ask your opponent if you can swap crews so you can better learn how both yours and his work. If you destroy him, maybe he'll better understand why you're frustrated. If he still wins, or it's close, you'll have some evidence that certain crews are not an auto-win. This will make you both better players in the long run anyway.

If neither is an option, cite general burnout and just don't play Malifaux at all that day. Maybe look into a non-Resser crew so that you can offer (or use) an alternative.

[edonil]

Agreed with Dust on this. It's not unfair or being a jerk to be uninterested in banging your head against a wall in frustration that just leads to quitting the game. I'd really recommend option #2- it gives you a really good chance to understand how a crew works, and figure out what to kill first. Also, are you playing just kill things? Cause if you are, I'd really recommend you don't. This game has so much more to offer, and strong killing crews like Neverborn can be thrown for a loop with particular scenarios.

[LordZombie]

Ok, guess I will help out also. First, not playing a game against someone does not make you a jerk as long as you don't always do it. There are players in my gaming group that I have play with for years, and sometimes I would not want to play them. Second, I am not sure why the first few replies someone will post when asking help is to go to pullmyfinger. Don't get me wrong, it is a great site, but not the end all to end all. Some parts are very incomplete. I mean the rogue necromancy is not even in there. Third, if losing is not a problem then go with it if you have to. Take a really fun goofy list and play it for the fun of it. I rarely win games in my gaming group, but I have fun with every game. Some masters do take a little fun out of the game (Zoraida and her obeying all seeing poison puppet) but if you are going up against that list and know it, break out the fun list. Use the game as a chance to try out those models the forum says are no good. If you know you can beat them, have fun with them. That is what I have to offer. Best of luck to you, fellow Resurrectionist.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Also, be aware the Pullmyfinger has sporadic rules errors. For example the information given on aSeamus incorrectly states that the effects from his Gorgon's Miasma is cumulative, which it isn't, as effects with the dame name don't stack.

Really the question is a little too general for me to be able to give much help as the strategies, and the tactics requires within those strategies, will vary wildly depending on which master is facing which master. If you narrow the question down a bit I might be able to offer more practical advice.

[morpsele]

Ok Thanks all. I am not new to the game in Fact i am one in the club that has played alot of game. We play with scenario and 2 schemes. Don't get me wrong i love the game/ the rule and all else. i have in my active gaming right now 7 victory 10 draw and 18 lost so losing is not what i care about. It's just the name neverborn gives me nightmares now. (Guess they should but hey)

I will trie after the league is done what Dust said. I will trie and play some neverborn.

But the question i have now is am i really the only one having probleme against the neverborn our is it normal. Cause from what i see here, i think i might be doing something wrong.

[edonil]

Neverborn can be a rough match for Resurrectionists, from what I've seen, so it isn't just you.

[morpsele]

Thank it makes me feel a little better.

I will trie my hand against them again. And by that time if you have any idea of what is the best let me know.

[tattyted]

I play McMourning a lot and have had good success against the neverborn. Last time he was out in competition he beat the dreamer/chompy fairly easily.

I obviously don't know how you prefer to play but you say you bring von schill almost all the time and use the dead rider a lot. I am not convinced about dead rider and have virtually stopped using him. As for von schill - I have owned him for ages and never fielded him yet (both of these are personal opinions/preferences). Point is that no model should be an auto-include and taking either (or both) of these is a big points investment.

[morpsele]

I never said it was an auto-include ether. It all depends on what i have to do has a scheme. and senario. It's like for me the chihuahua is not a auto include and neither are dogs. I don't play the killing summon all the time ether it's not always the same game that i play.

Stop Presuming because i said that i use them alot. It's not that. And if you see i have not said anything about the dreame because i have never seen it on the table yet. So i would be glade to trie some game agaisnt it.

[Dustcrusher]

We actually don't see a lot of neverborn play in my area other than Lilith, who, while tough, is not unbeatable.

Only advice I can offer gameplay-wise is for Collodi, destroying his Marionettes hampers him, and for Dreamer, killing his Daydreams does the same. Nicodem should be using Rigor Mortis a ton, too- paralyzing enemies is always good.

Wish I had more than borderline Captain Obvious stuff for ya- good luck. You'll figure it out.

[tattyted]

I never said it was an auto-include ether. It all depends on what i have to do has a scheme. and senario. It's like for me the chihuahua is not a auto include and neither are dogs. I don't play the killing summon all the time ether it's not always the same game that i play.

Stop Presuming because i said that i use them alot. It's not that. And if you see i have not said anything about the dreame because i have never seen it on the table yet. So i would be glade to trie some game agaisnt it.

Not presuming anything -just going on what you said about playing him 'almost all the time'

[Sezar]

I'm a Seamus addict, and I have played several times against all the Neverborn Masters but Dreamer (have played against him, but not with Ressers. Only lost once on a really close one against Lilith, but aside From that one and another draw against Pandora, Seamus has always been on the winning side.

In my experience, aSeamus is a must, as well as Hangeds and Jack Daw. My lists are mostly full of Belles (Doxy is my first summon), and Molly is hired about 75% of the time, even while I only do it cause it's soooo cute and charming!!!

Resilience and Terror is my game, forcing so many Morale Duels on my opponents that they will finally lose some, or at least they will have to waste their best cards on them instead on some other nastiness.

I refuse to hire Von Schill out of Viktorias and pure Korps Crews, so I have never tried him, but the Dead Rider is growing lately on me, as well as Nurses and Sue.

Remember that all NB Masters but Dreamer are Living, so they are susceptible to Morale, and that most NB Crews will be lacking magical Dg potential, so Jack Daw and Spirits are always great to fight them.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The masters are living, but counting on morale duels to be your main weapon is not a very good avenue to success, as even with aSeamus you can't get higher than an effective 19, and the lowest Wp the NB masters have is 6. Add in the ability to cheat and spend SS and you won't be causing an enemy master to run all that often.

That said, if you are bringing Seamus, I agree you need to bring aSeamus, as basic Seamus is far to weak to stand up to any of the NB masters.

If you are playing McMorning you at least have some good advantages. Firstly McMorning is an absolute monster in combat, and totally capable of slicing up anything that gets in his way, so that means you don't need to devote as much of your stones for killers, as McMorning can do that job. I almost always include the Chihuahua because the BP you can get out him him can't be beat. After that I'll usually include 1 dog, and 2 desperate mercs if I'm not bringing Von Schill.

Past that it really depends on the strategy. The biggest advantage you have as McMorning is your massive Cache, and the fact that McMorning is so scary in combat. The high Cache means you can bring a big crew every time, and you have to spend very little of it in killers, allowing far more customization for your goals. Additionally McMorning has the advantage of not needing Corpse counters to pull off his summons, so the fact that they aren't often bringing living models doesn't hurt you as much as other Ressers.

Assuming you stay trying things with McMorning my advice is:

#1) Make sure you have the activation advantage. This is extremely important because the NB are always going to have better models, better stats, and more dmg and tricks than you. You want them to expend their tricks so that when McMorning gets into range he can butcher them without fear of reprisal.

Bring cheap, effective models to go after your objectives and to draw fire and positions away from your threats. Position carefully and once the opponent's jaws are closed for the turn have McMorning knock their teeth out.

#2) Be aware of Terror. Terror on the whole is a very subpar ability, as very few things are affected by it, and the numbers are often so low that it doesn't cause most models much of a sweat to avoid. That said, McMorning has a lowish WP for a master, and it is very easy to forget he is susceptible to it. While in most cases even the scariest things might not cause him much of a sweat, be aware of the threat it poses and make certain you don't forget about it. If you are careful with your awareness of Terror, and guard your hand accordingly, McMorning will hardly ever run. Forget, and you will see him legging across the board quite often.

#3) The NB thrive on speed and sheer dmg to get them through in many cases. Use your crew to slow them down, and the presence of McMorning to deter them. Remember that in a game of Malifaux all your pieces are expendable for VP because it doesn't matter if they are alive or dead if you don't gain VP from those states. So utilize it.

Send out flocks of Night terrors to pin down opponents until McMorning can deal with them. Place models with many wounds on top of things the opponent wishes to get to. Pull their forward models in towards McMorning with a Rotten Belle, and use the BP you've gained with the attacks to throw Flesh constructs and a Rogue Necromancy back at them.

#4) McMorning's whole goal is not to summon, summon, summon. In an Ideal world you will want McMorning to get to around 8 or 9 BP on the first turn to prime his abilities, after that make sure you put them to the best use you can, but don't spend multiple turns gathering and summoning. McMorning himself is better than anything you can summon, and the more you gather and summon, the less you directly utilize him. Even just having McMorning standing behind terrain gives you advantage, because he is so deadly, and so fast that he forces the opponent to move in a way that takes him into account. If you hide him at the back gathering and summoning monsters you remove that powerful weapon from your arsenal.

#5) Be aware of the Master you face. A game vs Pandora is going to be a very different game than one Vs Zoraida. Make certain you are aware of the abilities of the crew you face and plan accordingly. NB on the whole have better stats, better abilities, and more speed, than anything you can bring. Make certain you know what is important to neutralize in the opposing crew and if you don't need to deal with it, don't. Your crew is too slow to waste the finite AP you have on attacks, or movement towards models that are not essential for you to deal with.

I know these are general pieces of advice, but they are what helps me when I have to go up against the NB.

[morpsele]

Thank you very Much Fetid. That was really usefull. I will check out every thing. I have and use night terrors alot and i want more for that matter. I know the power behind McMourning and i love to play the i'm in range watch out thing with Him.

I do bring the Chihuahua and other dogs but i don't do has much of the kill and get body parts on first turn anymore. I like to get them in combat and if i have to i will summon my Rn or Fc. I don't do it has much cause i find myself missing crows alot in my hands. Last 3 or 4 games i only got 3 total. So i don't count on it to much anymore.

[Sezar]

The masters are living, but counting on morale duels to be your main weapon is not a very good avenue to success, as even with aSeamus you can't get higher than an effective 19, and the lowest Wp the NB masters have is 6. Add in the ability to cheat and spend SS and you won't be causing an enemy master to run all that often

That's why I talked about Hangeds and Jack Daw. Most Neverborn want to be in melee as much as possible, and so does aSeamus. Manifest him in front of a bunch of models, and move Jack besides him, activating his no-cheat, no-SS aura. The chances that any model, including Masters, to win the Terror Duel with a straight flip are pretty low, and it doesn't really matter much that aSeamus is inside the aura too, as even if you fail on the dissengaging Strike, the model will still be fleeing away, losing its current and next activation.

There are a lot of living NB models, most Nephlim and Woes are btw, so building a terror bomb crew cannot be that awful idea as most might think if you are possibly going to fight Lilith or Pandora. Zoraida Crews usually have some too. Force their models as many Morale Duels as possible, and even if they somehow won them all, your opponent will be forced to burn his best Cards on them, Cards that won't be used against your models.

[Zombie Kitt]

It's a very straight up and down solution, but Killjoy gives you the equivalent of an intercontinental ballistic missile. 10" charge against neverborn, melee expert, easy to deliver to wherever you need him and he hits like a truck.

No matter what neverborn is causing you irritation, the generous application of Killjoy will soothe the itch.

[Twomins2mid]

Hands down, I'd have to agree with everyone who has already stated that Neverborn are a tough matchup. I primarily play Kirai, but have had success with all the Resser masters.

My suggestions would include:

1. Fun list full of random models. With the largest pool of models to select from, you can make some zany crews that not only make things more interesting for you, but can also confuse your opponent.

2. Killjoy and or Jack daw automatically make things interesting for both sides. I've had a lot of success with both, and I've also had them cause me trouble, but fun all around.

3. against Collodi, I like Nicodem and a bunch of Punk Zombies because his blast damage and the punks abilities and resilience can lead to a lot of dead puppets.

4. GAKI are insatiable!!! Never underestimate the power of a bunch of low cost models in large group especially with a feeding frenzy trigger and a friendly kirai within 6"... Toss a couple corpse counters in and you have a recipe for invincible Gaki.

5. Crooked men in combination with Belles can be a nasty combo with the shafted markers and lure.

Hope these help/ add some fun to your games.

When you do get the chance, I highly suggest playing some neverborn to get experience. I've played almost every master in the game and I can tell you first hand that you learn so much about how to beat them by playing them.

Also the biggest lesson I've learned about ressers is that sinking points into big models isn't always the best idea. given 20ss i'd rather take 4 punks rather than Kill joy and Jack daw... but that applies to playing against any faction IMHO