Firing into Melee and random target is out of range

[CannonFodder]

When shooting into melee and the randomized target is outside of the Shooters range, What happens?

When shooting into melee and the randomized target is out of LoS of shooter, What happens?

Marshal answer requested, search was confusing on this topic.

Edited May 17, 2012 by CannonFodder

[Fancy_Hat]

Bill from the Gamer's Lounge has a good blog post about an amazingly similar scenario (randomizing to hit a target that is out of Line of Sight). It can be found here. Hope that helps!

[TheUnseemlyOne]

In both cases you would still hit the randomized target.

[Ausplosions]

In both cases you would still hit the randomized target.

This.

[Alex]

It seems to me based on Bill's post, that you still check Range after selecting the randomized target, so if it is out of your Rg, the Strike fails at that point and the AP is gone, correct? But LoS was checked earlier, so breaking LoS would not cause the Strike to fail?

[TheUnseemlyOne]

No. You check range and LOS to the original target. Then randomize who is hit. After checking to the initial target there is no need to check range or LOS.

[CannonFodder]

Marshal answer requested, search was confusing on this topic.

Clarity would be appreciated

[GrAYFoX]

This thread covers both questions and confirms what elusive87 has said:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?24735-Timing-for-Spells-cast-into-melee#8

This one's definitely a candidate for the FAQ

[nilus]

The easiest way to visualize this is instead of targetting a model, your model is targeting the whole melee(IE the Melee itself is one large targetable mass). You are then just randomizing which model in the mass gets hit.

The reason you can hit models out of range(or even LOS) is because the static nature of a mini game does not really represent the chaotic nature of a large melee.

[DeusInnomen]

What nilus said. As crazy as it sounds in the rules, the folks in melee aren't just standing there waving their weapons like feather dusters at each other. They're circling, dodging and trying to get in close. Since that's basically insane to try and work into the rules, this is the next best thing without overcomplicating the rules.

[CannonFodder]

This thread covers both questions and confirms what elusive87 has said:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?24735-Timing-for-Spells-cast-into-melee#8

This one's definitely a candidate for the FAQ

That is a link to a marshal answering my question. Exactly what I was looking for. We have enough unauthorized opinions in our group, I didn't want to try factoring in more.

[Gruesome]

...We have enough unauthorized opinions in our group, I didn't want to try factoring in more...

Gag...

[Issalbotproto]

I think you need to understand the Rule marshals are here to jump in on topics noone quite understands, that is to say, if 7 or 8 different people give you the same answer it's safe to say that answer is correct unless a RM jumps in and goes "WHOA WHOA WHOA No. just no."

They are very busy doing other things they can not be on this board reanswering questions constantly

[nilus]

That is a link to a marshal answering my question. Exactly what I was looking for. We have enough unauthorized opinions in our group, I didn't want to try factoring in more.

And with a comment like that you never have to worry about me answering any of your questions again.

[yes but no]

I just want to clarify, would the new target in a firing into melee situation receive cover bonuses?

For example: One of my minions is on the edge of a forest engaged with an enemy completely inside the forest. I declare a ranged shot targeting my minion, check for range and then flip for both the engaged models to target find. I flip a lower card for the enemy model and it is my new target. Now I am no longer am worried about target range (assuming my minion, the original target, was in range initially) or los but what about the cover a model completely within obscuring terrain would normally receive? My initial target had no cover but my new one does.

[CannonFodder]

I think you need to understand the Rule marshals are here to jump in on topics noone quite understands, that is to say, if 7 or 8 different people give you the same answer it's safe to say that answer is correct unless a RM jumps in and goes "WHOA WHOA WHOA No. just no."

They are very busy doing other things they can not be on this board reanswering questions constantly

I understand that, but if you do a search in the forums you can't find conclusive proof anywhere, you can look and find an answer in either direction. Now this is something that MUST have come up in the past, and should be determined already. But since the FAQ is not ready yet.... you can see my previous posts where you see them mention its one of their plans for 2012.

in our LGS we usually figure this out internally by the group of us grabbing the RM, but when we can't get an internal consensus we post here. I try to keep the questions as simple and non-explanatory as possible, so it can get a simple yes/no answer. I'm not expecting an answer immediately but something in a week would be nice. in the past there was a problem with too many people being Rules marshal (Wierd sketch is actually no longer one who answered this question) which caused confusion because they were not consistent, now they are so few and looks too nervous to answer.

Yes and No brought up a good follow up questions, If the new target would get cover from the shooter does he still get it. Most would say yes, but if a guy behind a building would get shot, why would cover apply to someone else.

---------- Post added at 07:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 AM ----------

And with a comment like that you never have to worry about me answering any of your questions again.

As a henchman you opinions is appreciated, but its not enough to resolve disputes.

Excuse me if I use direct language, but I appreciate clarity.

[Gruesome]

No one is wondering why you asked or questioning your desire for "clarity".

IMO, it has more to do with your somewhat dismissive "tone" when the same answer was given to you by 3 henchmen, a link to a podcast discussion and 4 other posters all taking the time to chime in and try to be helpful to you.

If you will ONLY accept an answer when a rules marshal gets involved, then expect to wait. Often, to my eye, in a thread like this, when they see EVERYONE chime in with the correct answer and there is not a debate, they do not even get involved.

But, YMMV...

[Keltheos]

We do tend to leave alone threads that have the correct answers covered by the community, we can't express enough how much we appreciate the help.

That said, since we're putting the final touches on the FAQ (which will be going live very s@@n) and were going back through it I figured I'd post this question as an early Christmas present...

Q: When shooting or casting ranged Spells into Melee, what happens if the random model is out of range or I can't draw LoS?

A: If you are in LoS and in range of the original target you are able to hit the new target, regardless if that new target is in LoS or range."

Enjoy.