Impressions on Malifaux

[bashamer]

I’ve played 4 games so far and I think I’m starting to see how Malifuax is different than many other games. The big difference is that offense has a massive benefit in Malifaux; if you put your mind to something you WILL be able to pull it off. The Soulstone mechanic ensures that, if a master / totem / henchman goes after a model that cannot use Soulstones they will nearly always be able to pull off the result they want. In addition the ability to cheat a red joker on damage means that it is even more crazy.

This means that even tough combos in Malifaux are extremely prevalent and exceptionally powerful you always have to be able to adapt; as any model can die if you opponent is willing to put the resources into it.

In Warmahores that is just not the case, there is not nearly the mobility & focus in your offensive output to explode a model that is 12” away. In Games workshop games there are so many dice and random rolls that you can predict how things go after deployment pretty accurately. Even in infinity you can’t stack your odds like in Malifaux.

There are two military historians called von Clausewitz & Jomini, where von Clausewitz focuses on opportunity; Jomini focuses on the goal. This game is one where you cannot focus on the goal as most people can fling a monkey wrench and there is nothing you can do about it other than adapt.

• If you don’t like surprises, this game is not for you.

• If you like to plan things, this game is not for you.

• If you get frustrated by setbacks, this game is not for you

Some factions are more impacted by this than others, but no faction can place a brick big enough w/o exposing a weakness.

If you want to get better at this game, watch games. And I don’t mean watch an entire game, I mean walk to a table and make up your mind as to what you would do right then; then walk over to the next table and repeat. Teach yourself to see opportunity by practicing looking for it.

[SoulG]

You can actually plan with Malifaux, you just plan differently. The trick is that, although anyone can make almost anything go off, there's a very finite amount of resources (SS, Cards, AP). You also plan by limiting and granting opportunity. When you reach the point where you know what your opponent's crew is capable of, you'll reach the point where you can plan.

[Ratty]

It's about Strategy and Tactics.

40k you set up your strategy in which Army you take and how they are going to secure you Victory. Every game can have the same Strategy, and once in game tactics hardly come into it. Your army most of the time does what you plan it to do. The guy with the best Strategy wins.

With Malifaux both strategy and tactics matter, you have to choose the right crew for the job. If your wanting to dive deep into the enemy side of the board you will have a different strategy to if your holding a point. But due to the card dynamic, you also need to worry about tactics, IE what your models do once they hit the board, how your are going to maximise the enemies mistakes and minimise when things go wrong. So strategy and planning do matter an aweful lot. But they are not the only thing that matters.

So

Strategy: Choosing your Crew depending on the opponents Faction and the Strategy both Players Flipped. Choosing the Schemes which compliment those decisions.

Tactics: What flips you choose to flip. Which Strategies/Schemes you decide are lost causes and which you go for. What model you use to counter opponents. How you decide to spend your AP.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Ratty

[Lucidicide]

• If you don’t like surprises, this game is not for you.

Honestly, I would say this is a function of being new to the game. I have been playing a long time, and I am very rarely surprised. You learn the capabilities of the other models, and then it's a matter of figuring out how to deal with it. For example, I often consider the Df + 13 of the model I'm targeting. Could they cheat a Red Joker? Yes. I take that into consideration. If it is more important the model I'm targeting is hit, I'll look at Df + 14.

I guess that's just a long winded way of saying that surprises happen when you don't know the capabilities, which comes from lack of experience. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of experience to get to a place where you're not surprised.

• If you like to plan things, this game is not for you.

In some ways, I agree. It is a type of planning that requires your plan to constantly adapt. If you go into a game like Chess with a plan and try to implement regardless of your opponent, you will lose. If you have a plan for each time you can move a piece, that's good. You have a strategy (or tactic, if you prefer) that extends into the future -- you just have to be prepared to need a new strategy with your next model.

That said, there is less large scale adjustment required when you are less surprised -- see my first point.

• If you get frustrated by setbacks, this game is not for you

Agreed completely. I know a few people who have quit the game when something doesn't go their way. And I mean that both in turns of the specific game AND of Malifaux in general. Don't ever expect to just do what you want to. You will be set back.

If you're the type of person who favors a model and relies on it, your opponent will see that and destroy it. Malifaux requires you to recognize that casualties are a necessary aspect of victory. If you can't recognize that, you won't do well.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Agree with points 1 & 3, 2 is not one I see from experience. Lucicide summarized the difference between planning with adaptation (vs. planning and sticking to said plan).

[bashamer]

Planning was in a way focused on people that like to take a few minutes to create their plan for a turn. You can't do that.

In Warmahordes I can write a plan for my army; turn 1 do this, turn 2 do this, turn 3 pop feat, do this and this. And I can hand that plan to someone else and they can execute that plan. In Malifaux you can't, every game is very different due to schemes, strategies and crew makeup. You can't just play your game; you have to react to your opponent. This in a way gets also to the strategy / tactics point by Ratty. Strategy is a much smaller part of this game in comparison to other games.

As far as surprises, I'm sure it will diminish over time. but the threat ranges are insane, and the combos can be insane. If you don't know them you will lose games due to them.

As far as being able to stop people, I'm sure you can slow them down, and if they were really friendly they might even have brought a crew that is easy to slow down. But you need to bring a lot, and your opponent has to be accommodating. But if something that can use soulstones wants to do something to a model that cannot; good luck. And there are a lot of things that can use soulstones offensively, and very few things that can use them defensively. There is a limit; true. It costs resources; true. But it isn't going to be stopped.

In this game defense is a much rarer characteristic than offense.

playing cagey in this game (removing surprises by padding odds) is really expensive. In a way it is a D13 game, counting on your opponent to have a 14 every time means that you don't take many chances. and you end up not utilizing much of your force. Assuming that your enemy has a red joker is very costly in opportunity cost.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Oh, well, I never stick that strictly to a plan in WM. I have certain tricks that I expect to work in certain ways, but I generally react a lot, anyways.

I'm surprised that from a WM background you find threats/combos insane. I haven't fought any alarming combos that I couldn't have seen coming. I find WM's much nastier. Then again, my #1 priority has always been "know what can attack you at any time," so maybe I'm just the wrong person to ask about that one.

Re: cagey, I don't play cagey, I roll with the punches. Cards are a resource, and I intend to use it as little as possible while pushing my opponent to do so (or, letting them push themselves). This usually involves more nonessential pieces dying, but very strong late turns for me.

[bashamer]

So I play Collody (4 games), and the Kearisa 1 game

The movement is insane.

The stitched together are insane; so insane that every oponent I've had play against them have been very unpleasantly suprised. 1 game I won by shoveling ~20 attacks into a stitched together & having rotten contents splayed all over the place. This was all in one chain of activations.

5 x gamble your life from 1 model is also insane.

And my master is a buffbot.

Chained overpowered december's curse on a stitched together was also insane as my army got nuked.

Maybe Warmachine in Legends era, but certainly not now.

[Cats Laughing]

Planning was in a way focused on people that like to take a few minutes to create their plan for a turn. You can't do that.

In Warmahordes I can write a plan for my army; turn 1 do this, turn 2 do this, turn 3 pop feat, do this and this. And I can hand that plan to someone else and they can execute that plan. In Malifaux you can't, every game is very different due to schemes, strategies and crew makeup. You can't just play your game; you have to react to your opponent.

This is a function of the You Go-I Go vs Initiative based systems.

I used to play alot of Babylon 5 Wars. You had to think ahead several turns, but you also had to react to your opponent's actions. Now, you could plan out an individual turn, once Initiative was determined, and modify it for losses. In Malifaux this is much more limited, because the activation order isn't set at the beginning of the turn and is determined on the fly. This makes it a much more reactive (plan must change or at least be evaluated all the time) game.

In WarmaHordes and Warhammer(FB/40k) you get a full turn with your army before your opponent can make any reaction (baring certain limited abilities). Naturally this allows for a great deal of planning. On the otherhand, you can look at each turn in those games and view them as an individual model's activation in Malifaux. There is a certain amount of reaction require between turns in those games as well, and that 'Turn 1 plan, Turn 2 plan, Turn 3 plan, etc..' idea you proposed earlier only really works in lopsided (skill or army composition) match-ups.

[WindlordRyu]

Honestly, I would say this is a function of being new to the game. I have been playing a long time, and I am very rarely surprised.

There's more surprises in this game than any other game I know of. Not due to the amount of insane combos available. It's that you can keep your schemes hidden, which adds an unknown factor not present in other games (that I know of).

[Gruesome]

• If you like to plan things, this game is not for you.

I disagree with this statement completely.

I think its a FAILING of other "war/skirmish" games that you can lay out a turn's worth of movements and attacks and expect them to behave as you desire.

There is a famous quote by Helmuth von Moltke, a German military strategist, that best sums up Malifaux "plans" (And real life)

"No battle plan survives contact with the enemy"

Will portions work out? yes, possibly. Will EVERYTHING work out? Yes, possibly. (Unlikely)

Will NOTHING work out? yes possibly. (Unlikely)

As has been mentioned above adapting to changing conditions is the rule rather than the exception.

I would argue that "planning" as you suggest it is actually MUCH DEEPER in Malifaux, because you need to understand not only what you WANT to do, BUT ALSO what contingency plans you may need when portions do not work out as you would like.

[LordZombie]

Having player many of the games you named, I can see some points but not others. The idea of surprises is kinda a given in any game you play. Warhammer does this, if you don't buy the opponent's army book. War Machine is just as bad, if not worst than Malifaux, as you have no chance to react to your opponent's actions. To me, setting up all your models in postion then having all models pull off the combo/feat and just watching your opponent take it as he can't react until his turn, takes less tactics than Malifaux. There are so many things that can go wrong in a game of Malifaux, that pulling off that combo just makes you feel better. This also follows the same as planning. You plan, but you plan on your feet. Having your opponent take a turn right after you, really makes you think on your feet. But you do plan in Malifaux, you pick your crew after the statergy is flipped, you pick your schemes after you know what your opponent is taking. If you did this in Fantasy or War Machine, you are playing a totally different game and the player that goes first is most likely to win. As for set backs, Fantasy and War Machine are far worst. Play a game of Fanasy and have a 400 point unit with character disappear on the first turn. Play a game of War Machine and lose on your first turn because you placed your caster 1/2" out of postion. Sure you can lose key models in Malifaux, but you can still turn it around and win. Malifaux is the only game in all the games I have ever played that is still fun no matter the lost or win.

[bashamer]

I don't know of any 1st turn assassinations in WarmaHordes in MK2, but I have not been keeping up. I guess if you ran your caster turn 1 and gave a good sidestep target for people to goad / bounce off of, maybe. But you better be going first to help your opponent out.

I have heard that fantasy magic these days is a bit on the silly side, but I have not played that in a few editions.

Either way, the only real slingshot in Warmahordes was Molikarn; and yep it was pretty awesome. Collodi can launch an attack 50" (4x 8" pull, 3x 5" walk, 1" reach, 2" place) inches away; really it is more, as I'm not counting base sizes, so that is likely an other 5". but that is pretty pointless as the table is only 36" long. Most other games don't have combos that stop keeping track because the table just really isn't big enough to care. oh, and you can do it in one activation. Collodi can actually activate 10 models in one activation.

Collodi is also the only master I have played a few times, so I have a clue how far i can take it. I'm sure I don't really, but it is nice to think that I do.

And that is a henchman.

[Poltron]

I have to agree with the movement part and planning against it. There's some combos in Malifaux that can be brutal 1st turn, and while you can predict them, depending on your crew, you cant always stop them from happening.

If the stars align for you opponent, it can mean the fastest game you've ever played, requiring as much strategy (and fun at the end of the day) than playing with a slingshot loaded with steel marble against my models.

I love having fast crews, and movement is important in Malifaux, but some combos could be toned down a bit so that crews that are more static have more time to react. Turn 1 kills (or sometimes turn 1 objectives grabbing) shouldnt be so common, even if you sacrifice a lot by doing so.

Knowing that you lose after 1 turn of play is a bit frustrating, when you took more time preparing the game and choosing your crew than actually playing it.

My 2 cents