must have's for lucius..

[Shank Seamus!]

Evening all,

So as my small group of mailfauxsters e increases, one of my good friends is looking at lucius (god knows we need guild players) and as its his birthday soon, I figured is get him the lucius box.. isn't that nice..?

Anywho what I'm asking is, what does the box need additionally, I'm looking at the governers proxy and possibly a few hounds, but inevitably he'l want to expand.. so shoot.. what's a list he'l get the most use out of?

Cheers,

SS!

[Golden]

Id go with Drill Sergeant over the Governor's proxy and 2 Austringers are great to have in addition to a blister of Guild Guard. I hear Hounds are gold, but I haven't finished painting mine yet.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Lady j box or Sonia box to go with. But for a purely Lucius, ideally he wants in order

a clam of dogs

a Austringer

a clam of guardsman

a drill sarge

another Austringer

one more clam of dogs

That is how I would priotize it. Very nice of you. Austringers become better with sarge, dogs are great objective cappers and reactivate sacs.

[nix]

My most recent successful Lucius build is comprised of the following boxes in order of how I would buy them:

Lucius Box

clam of Guardsmen

Austringer

Drill Sergeant

Austringer #2

2 clam of Guild Hounds

Then grab some wardens when they release. The list above gives you 60SS of models to play with and everything that Lucius wants to take that's currently released. Pretty much the only things missing are totems which Lucius does not always want over the drill sergeant.

Enjoy!

[yslaire]

Can you confirm that Austringers are legal with Lucius? Guess they were errated as guardsmen in v2 cards?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Correct, and they are amazing with him.

:bounce:

[Brettqpublic]

My most recent successful Lucius build is comprised of the following boxes in order of how I would buy them:

Lucius Box

clam of Guardsmen

Austringer

Drill Sergeant

Austringer #2

2 clam of Guild Hounds

Then grab some wardens when they release. The list above gives you 60SS of models to play with and everything that Lucius wants to take that's currently released. Pretty much the only things missing are totems which Lucius does not always want over the drill sergeant.

Enjoy!

Nix, when using Lucius as a master which hard hitting minion do you prefer, Ryle or a Guild Guard Captain?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Brettqpublic
clarity

[Rathnard]

The great thing about collecting Lucius is that he's a henchman and thus, only has a small pool of models to collect. What Nix listed is pretty much everything you'd ever need for a Lucius crew.

From there (and after you get the warden, once released), your best option is to grab Lady Justice and replace the Captain with her (as per the Lucius tactica on the aethervox)

[nix]

Nix, when using Lucius as a master which hard hitting minion do you prefer, Ryle or a Guild Guard Captain?

I go back and forth between the two, with no real rhyme or reason to which I choose.

Honestly, I find that I tend to do more damage with Austringers and Guild Guards than either Ryle or the Captain. I still bring one or the other along for the visible threat.

Now, keep in mind that the captain can be a key portion of the Lucius alpha strike to get that last guild-guard in with a final shot or two.

[nix]

The great thing about collecting Lucius is that he's a henchman and thus, only has a small pool of models to collect. What Nix listed is pretty much everything you'd ever need for a Lucius crew.

From there (and after you get the warden, once released), your best option is to grab Lady Justice and replace the Captain with her (as per the Lucius tactica on the aethervox)

Derailing the thread just a little, but I have to admit that I always have a real hard time paying 10 points for Lucius as a Henchman. I just feel that it hampers my guardsman builds to heavily and Lady J does not make up for it.

What do your typical Lucius/Lady J builds look like at 30 points? Is 35 the necessary level to really make that combo work?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I would say that 35 is where Lucius as henchman works.

Lady j is obvious choice to me. With the ability to drop her 14" out on the field could easily place her in charge range. Very few things survive two attacks from lady j. Sometimes it is hard to get her there so easily.

I plan trying this combo this weekend, Lucius, mctavish with lady j and possibly student. This should allow me to drop j 8-10" from target and either in or behind a forest. With scout on j she can be out los of target just before she charges in the for the kill reducing visibilty and threats to her. J w/ fast can POP in kill and fall back into cover.

Lucius can also move up into cover making even harder to hurt. This will work great at getting kill protege off or killing an opponents vital minion/master.

To me Lucius became much more useful as a henchman with lady j now that mctavish is out. His ability to handout scout is awesome. Now If your meta doesn't play with forests a lot this might not be that big of a help.

[Guardian]

Im not sure if the box is really useful for lucius. Im not sold on lawyer and ryle, and there again, one guardsmen is not enoug, while 3 are too much. So you will need to buy one extra.

What do you think?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

You could go all clams, lawyer and Ryle.can be later adds. But don't sell lawyer short his spells are crazy good. And reinforcement allows him to get them off where they need be.

[micahwc]

I like lucius and Hoffman together in larger games, and will like them more when the warden is released

[Marcalla]

I'm not really sure why people dump on the lawyer. In a game that revolves around model synergy, the ability to remove the friendly status (and thus the synergy's) of a model to her crew is invaluable.

If say Nekima or the Black Blood shaman are no longer friendly your opponent will have alot of tots running around with a very very difficult time growing them.

Your opponents slop haulers no longer able to heal gremlins means they won't be causing wounds to themselves to get that extra action. And summoned gremlins will be at half wounds.

Worried about your opponent using a 2-3 pt model to summon killjoy in the middle of your crew, its hard to do when he's no longer considered friendly.

Suddenly the daydreams can no longer bury the dreamer or other nightmares...

Or how about turning a coryphee duet unfriendly. it's hard to swap places with cassandra after that.

An unfriendly snowstorm means no moving gamon/golems, no cover for Rasputina. Speaking of Tina, no extra range from the silent one or ice mirroring through a gamon/golem (p.s. You remove the gamon/golem not tina)

I think the lawyer (and tuco though he's not out yet) are woefully mis-understood.

As to the rest of the Lucious gang dogs are great in larger packs 3-4 as you can use them to give lucious re-activate for 2.5 pts per re-activate.

And the Austringer firebase is very strong. 12" range no LoS needed and CB 7-9 mean's your likely to hit even masters (or at the very least cause them to use a stone they might not otherwise need to use) with a Drill Sgt close by you get plus 1 flips to attack as well.

I've had mixed results with Ryle, I think he works much better with his brother controlling his anti-social tendencies.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Marcalla
changed acolyte to silent one, and added to firebase paragraph.

[Calmdown]

Lucius is Malifauxese for "Lady J's support guy".

[Brettqpublic]

What do your typical Lucius/Lady J builds look like at 30 points? Is 35 the necessary level to really make that combo work?

I've only run the Lucius/Lady J combo at 35. I also back it up with a Student of Conflict and an Executioner. I really feel as though the addition of a second, durable melee threat really adds a lot to the list. Having both Lady J and the Executioner in the middle of my opponent's crew on turn 2-3 has proven pretty effective so far.

You could try it at lower point totals but your model count gets really low.

[Calmdown]

I've only run the Lucius/Lady J combo at 35. I also back it up with a Student of Conflict and an Executioner. I really feel as though the addition of a second, durable melee threat really adds a lot to the list. Having both Lady J and the Executioner in the middle of my opponent's crew on turn 2-3 has proven pretty effective so far.

You could try it at lower point totals but your model count gets really low.

This, very this. Some people run Judge, but personally I think Executioner is far superior.

The major problem with this list is that it's hit or miss. When it works it's spectacular, but when it fails it's equally so; and it's not very scheme oriented, relying mostly on denying your opponent the ability to do *anything* of VP-earning value.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

This, very this. Some people run Judge, but personally I think Executioner is far superior.

The major problem with this list is that it's hit or miss. When it works it's spectacular, but when it fails it's equally so; and it's not very scheme oriented, relying mostly on denying your opponent the ability to do *anything* of VP-earning value.

+1, point is not to make the ultimate killing list. This vests too much ss in face crushing. J doesn't need a melee support model she does better with scheme completing minions.

Also I face assassinate on lady j a lot. Rarely does she survive, because what she is able to do is worth the 2 vp deficit. I try to take a kill taget to balance out. Point is the rest of my crew is needed to get vp. Judge is better option because he is faster any gives more scheme options than executioner.

Brett, your suggestion thrives in slaughter.

[Brettqpublic]

This, very this. Some people run Judge, but personally I think Executioner is far superior.

The major problem with this list is that it's hit or miss. When it works it's spectacular, but when it fails it's equally so; and it's not very scheme oriented, relying mostly on denying your opponent the ability to do *anything* of VP-earning value.

That's a fair assessment. My biggest blowouts, win and loss, both came from this list.

I know a lot of people love The Judge but in this list I really prefer The Executioner. The Judge's speed and ranged abilities are underutilized when Lucius can dump a model over the halfway point of the table. Likewise, the Executioner's lack of mobility is a non-issue. From a defensive perspective in my experience HtW pales in comparison to LtJ. Finally, never, ever undervalue the power of paired weapons. Not only do they even your swings out but they allow you to cheat against models such as Coryphee.

Brett, your suggestion thrives in slaughter.

I agree Mr. Bigglesworth. My playgroup tends to play shared strategies and for shared Slaughter and Claim Jump the list is great. If we're playing something like Destroy the Evidence or Treasure Hunt a different list with more objective oriented minions is better.

[Guardian]

The Judge problem is even more amplified, if you take Justice with him. Both of them fight for masks, so this makes it a non issue.

Exec for me too.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

False. Judge needs 5-6 :masks. J and judge don't compete for those masks, lady j needs high masks for riposte. I would waste a 10+ :masks in judge for an extra attack. Judge by merit is great in melee and range, only a bonus if he can produce another attack. Judge is also one of the faster guild minions.

Executioner is a one trick pony and easy to hit and avoid. Lucius allows you to dump him in range for one kill. Once he has killed he struggles to stay in the fray. Or at least most opponents should be able to avoid him.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Calmdown]

Not only do they even your swings out but they allow you to cheat against models such as Coryphee.

You can always cheat against Coryphee. They get a +ve flip, they don't give you a -ve.

And yes, paired is the single most powerful standard ability in the game, as is anything that gives +ve flips.

[micahwc]

I don't own the judge or an executioner so I can't field either of those two with Lady J and Lucius. How do you all feel about either Ryle or a Peace Keeper in this role? I know that Ryle is mostly seen as a ranged minion, but on paper he has an impressive melee ability as well. I love the Peace Keeper with Hoffman and almost think it is an auto-include for him, but I realize he has some disadvantages with other masters.

Turn 1 throw a fast Lady Justice in the enemies face followed in turn 2 by a Peace Keeper or Ryle?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I would use the same logic as I do with judge and executioner way options that each brings and speed. Peacekeeper is fastest model that guild has next to dogs and Perdita. Peacekeeper has paired claws but range.

Ryle has both ranged and melee, he his fairly fast with free push, difference is he isn't really friendly for target buffs, so can't be get fast, but he has a built in +1 walk and +1 ranged attack, hard to discount.

I think both bring good options as all comer list it would probably be peacekeeper if I can fit him in and that is the innate problem he is a lot. And I feel like most times the 9ss can't be found so I take the 8ss option in lieu.

In a vacuum I pick peacekeeper. Otherwise, both rarely see the table anymore, I take Ryle more for fun. He is a walking red joker waiting to happen and I love that about him. Nothing like it in the game when he flips the red joker in the gun. Oh I hit you for severe so I get extra flip, and I get an extra flip for red joker so nib 6 max I think was 12.