APandora/aCandy question?

[Tarragon]

I got the model, because it is fantastic (and a pain to put together, incidentally.) but I'm wondering how to best use her in game. I don't like owning models that I don't use regularly, especially one as intricate as this. Any tips?

Also, aCandy's Sweets ability states 'this does not cause the model to lose Harmless'. aCandy never had Harmless to begin with... she has Irresistible instead. Why would the action need to state that?

[Keltheos]

Because Sweets is the same ability regardless of which model it is on. The wording remains the same even if aCandy doesn't have the Harmless portion of it.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I know you most likely won't like my opinion on this, but the best way to use aPandora is to paint her in a gorgeous way and use the sculpt and paint job to get others to play Malifaux. As for use in games... my opinion is she is useful only for fun.

Sure there are a few very specific situations that aPandora is very useful, unfortunately regular Pandora is also good in those situations, and doesn't require you to spend 2 SS and go through the steps to manifest.

The very top tier masters as a general rule don't seem to have avatars that are all that useful for them as anything other than fun pieces. Kirai, Colette, The Dreamer, Pandora, etc... all of their avatars are to a greater or lesser extent not overall very useful. Which in some ways is a good thing.

You can however probably get more games in with Pandora with a little less complaining if you promise to bring her avatar along.

[Tarragon]

You can however probably get more games in with Pandora with a little less complaining if you promise to bring her avatar along.

That's fine by me!

I don't mind about lessened ability, I could guess at that from the -/- Wk/Cg values.

But, I'm just thinking on how to use the 'fun' piece to still be able to put up a fight. If I took Stake A Claim, then Manifested on the terrain I nominated, that would get me the scheme pretty handily.

Oh, another question. If I took Pandora's scheme (Spread Madness), and Manifested before fulfilling it, could I say the Self-Destruction spell counts as the Self-Loathing spell? As it is essentially an evolution of that spell.

[i_was_like_you]

But, I'm just thinking on how to use the 'fun' piece to still be able to put up a fight. If I took Stake A Claim, then Manifested on the terrain I nominated, that would get me the scheme pretty handily.

Now that's just mean.

[Ratty]

I've played her a few times and she can be very good if you need to hold a part of the board. I remember a great game where Pandora was getting swarmed by zombies. At the last moment she manifested and the Zombies scattered to the hills.

[Tarragon]

Now that's just mean.

Well, to me it's logical. She can't move, so put her in a place where she's useful XD

I've played her a few times and she can be very good if you need to hold a part of the board. I remember a great game where Pandora was getting swarmed by zombies. At the last moment she manifested and the Zombies scattered to the hills.

So, Pandora's more hit-and-run, and the Avatar is more take-and-hold? OK, I can see that being useful late-game.

[Ratty]

Well, to me it's logical. She can't move, so put her in a place where she's useful XD

So, Pandora's more hit-and-run, and the Avatar is more take-and-hold? OK, I can see that being useful late-game.

That's the way I look at it. She's great at holding positions when she turns into an Avatar but you get locked down in position so you have to be sure you cover all the other bases, before you change.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I like playing aPandora.

She is great for some strategies: If your opponent has Send a Message or Distract or Holdout, or you have Claim Jumper or Escape and Survive. She also makes an enemy's Assassinate hard and your Bodyguard easy.

To play her: flit around as Pandora, horrifying and discombulating your opponent for a few turns, and accomplish any mobility-related goals you need to accomplish.

Then, settle down in a strategic objective point, and throw up a Hollows of Despair wall to turn it into your personal fortress hideout. If the enemy comes to you, it's great because aPandora is incredibly defensive. If the enemy doesn't come to you, send Candy to make trouble and have Pandora cast Self-Destruction through Her Eyes.

The awesome thing about aPandora: All damage to Pandora is split in half and shared with Candy, but all Candy's healing is applied equally to both, so Candy heals about 4 damage per round from their communal pool.

(Also, don't start with Candy if you plan to manifest. A free model is way better than 2 extra Wounds.)

Don't pick aPandora if your strategy requires you to move around a lot. She's worthless for Line in the Sand or Plant Evidence. But if you can park her in front of your enemy's Supply Wagon or a Claim Jump or something, she is amazing. She makes a little super-fort wherever she lands.

[Tarragon]

Awesome. Thank you people for the tips!

[i_was_like_you]

Don't pick aPandora if your strategy requires you to move around a lot. She's worthless for Line in the Sand or Plant Evidence. But if you can park her in front of your enemy's Supply Wagon or a Claim Jump or something, she is amazing. She makes a little super-fort wherever she lands.

I'd think that aPandora would be alright in Line in the Sand, too. Get everything armed and park her between two counters, preferably the middle ones. They won't be disarming them, and her spell range (modded by Candy, too) might just make it to the next counters as well.

[Tarragon]

I have a couple more questions, if you will.

Would Alps work with her? Her Suffer! ability causes a Wp-duel (therefore 1Wd from Emotional Trauma) and gives Slow, which would cause more wounds from the Alps from Feed on Dreams. Plus the Alps themselves cause Wp-duels from being around from Smother.

Would a viable tactic be then, if my opponent castles up as he often does, to charge towards him, Manifest directly in front of him and throw some Alps at him?

And if this is true, I might as well pick up Coppelius as well, I've heard he's good with Pandy.

[nachtnebel]

I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be possible to build a trap that is really hard to escape with a Hollows of Despair marker and an Insidious Madness?

Put the HoD marker in place, move an Insidious Madness right into the middle of it and activate Psychopathic Episode. Now you can use a Lilitu to Lure some targets into contact with the HoD marker which forces them to win a WP -> 13 duel with a , most models should loose this duel and get burried.

In the Resolve Effects Step, return the models but make sure that they still touch the HoD marker, so they have to make another WP -> 13 Duel as soon as they want to move.

Next round, activate the Insidious Madness as soon as possible and use Induce Phobia and Psychopathic Madness, so each action of all models trapped in the HoD marker will force them to win a Terrifying -> 12 duel and, if they try to move, additionally a WP -> 13 duel with , that should be more than most models can handle.

If this works, you can use Lilitu to collect more and more models in your trap and as long as you win the initiative flip, almost no model should be able to escape. Just make sure to not lure in models that can easily kill a Df 6 Insidious madness if you lose the initiative flip.

The Insidious Madness is also rather save, cause attacks and spells would receive a due to the HoD marker.

[Tarragon]

I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be possible to build a trap that is really hard to escape with a Hollows of Despair marker and an Insidious Madness?

Put the HoD marker in place, move an Insidious Madness right into the middle of it and activate Psychopathic Episode. Now you can use a Lilitu to Lure some targets into contact with the HoD marker which forces them to win a WP -> 13 duel with a , most models should loose this duel and get burried.

In the Resolve Effects Step, return the models but make sure that they still touch the HoD marker, so they have to make another WP -> 13 Duel as soon as they want to move.

Next round, activate the Insidious Madness as soon as possible and use Induce Phobia and Psychopathic Madness, so each action of all models trapped in the HoD marker will force them to win a Terrifying -> 12 duel and, if they try to move, additionally a WP -> 13 duel with , that should be more than most models can handle.

If this works, you can use Lilitu to collect more and more models in your trap and as long as you win the initiative flip, almost no model should be able to escape. Just make sure to not lure in models that can easily kill a Df 6 Insidious madness if you lose the initiative flip.

The Insidious Madness is also rather save, cause attacks and spells would receive a due to the HoD marker.

...OWCH. That would suck for the opponent.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I'd think that aPandora would be alright in Line in the Sand, too. Get everything armed and park her between two counters, preferably the middle ones. They won't be disarming them, and her spell range (modded by Candy, too) might just make it to the next counters as well.

Ooh, good point!

[Hateful Darkblack]

Would Alps work with her?

And if this is true, I might as well pick up Coppelius as well, I've heard he's good with Pandy.

Alps seem to provide a lot of synergy. I have only used them a little myself.

I love playing Coppelius with Pandora. He acts as a second mobile flanker, picking up side objectives while Pandora and her linked Sorrows sweep through the field, and Paralyzing anyone who tries to stop him.

[Tarragon]

And finally, one more question.

What constitutes an 'effect' that would trigger destinies Entwined and effect both models? I get that Candy's Sweets would affect both, but could Candy's Regret trigger also protect Pandora? Could Candy's Unnerving Presence aura extend from Pandora as well? And vice versa, Could you allow Candy to gain the Immobile effect when faced with a Pine Box?

I'm just looking for a sort of guide as what does and doesn't happen through this sharing effects thing.

And while I'm at it, isn't it bit silly that Pandora's Expose Fears can be ignored, but Candy's Irresistible can't?

[tadaka]

Best example i can give is an effect is some thing that is not a damage, counter or token thats effects a model. Regret trigger is an effect on the attacker not candy so no. Unnerving is an aura. Being as a model is not effected by its own aura i would say no here as well. This is my best understanding hope it helps