Sybaris Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Mmm, yeah played both mainline GW games, but i've stopped when the rules and codex creep started to eat the fun in the game and simply put, made it too obvious that they played with balance in order to sell miniatures. The games lost their personality. Interestingly enough, the best designed games from GW are not their wargames. It's the smaller ones that are great. Bloodbowl in particular, Warhammer Quest, Battlefleet Gothic, Necromunda and Mordheim etc. Their Lord of the ring game is also much better system-wise, as well as the Historical or Ancient battle rules. So far Malifaux really is refreshing, and i hope it keeps going on the way Book 1 started on. Book 2 made me rise a few eyebrows though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 when i started out GW was the only thing really available and over the 20+ years inbetween I have collected vast amounts of models for warhammer, 40k, epic, necromunda and the more obscure games - laserburn, GorkaMorka, Man o War, etc. Hell, I've even got a box of their Doctor Who and Judge Dredd ranges (with the hexagonal slottabases). My relationship was always love/hate in that i liked the fantsay battle idea but didnt really buy into the warhammer world. loved certain fluff such as lizardmen but equally thought beastmen were poodlepooh. I don't play any more for a large number of reasons; 1. The games have an emphasis on 'power creep' -every army has to be better than the previous one. 2.the price is actually not that bad, but you need so many miniatures that it becomes expensive. 3. as far back as 12-15 years ago their mail order service was c*** and has never got better (it is on a par with Maelstrom without the excuse that they get models from other suppliers). I had particularly bad experience with White Dwarf subscriptions -the enthusiasm displayed by shop staff is not shared by their support teams. 4. with large/huge armies characters either don't get used or are so insanely overpowered that you just don't get to see any subtle influences . The models are fairly good -and have got markedly better over the last few years, which i think is due to the rise of other, better quality manufacturers (Wyrd [obviuosly] kingdom death, Confrontation/Rackham] athough Warmahordes are a bit hit and miss [they have a good game system though]. So what makes Malifaux so good? well, (so far) there isn't really 'power creep'. Crews dont become obsolete simply because the newest one is not only geared to beat them but also tooled up to be untouchable by them. you don't need vast numbers of identical models that you spend hours painting and then know that they will be removed from the battle in minutes after being deployed. the range of models and abilities/schemes and strategies is enough to keep your 100th games as interesting and different as your 1st. Whereas GW armies have a playstyle and tactics that doesn't change and there is little scope for variation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattyted Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 #21 Diehard reminded me Dark Future. GW used to make some lovely little models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think their BoD isn't very hobby savvy. I also think that GW is one of the reasons behind the trend towards skirmish level games over the past five years or so (they obviously were around prior to that, they got a big boost more recently) with people struggling to field correct sized forces for anything bigger. I'm fine with them not capitalizing on the trend. I'd rather not give them any more money if I can avoid it. Historical gaming has also become more popular over the last decade (partly thanks to Rick Priestley doing Warhammer Historical) and those are far from being skirmish games. People still play large scale games, in fact they're still far more popular than skirmish games. People that play in the more historical/modern games are the majority of the gaming community leaving us that play the more fantastical outnumbered some 20 or 30 to 1, lol. However, skirmish leval among fantasy/sci-fi has become more popular, but GW have been doing that since WFB 1st edition and still support smaller games of WFB and 40k, just lacking support for all of their other systems. I loved LotR until War of the Ring appeared anmd suddenly it was "look, you need to buy 500 more models to have a proper army" and now they've gone back to the strategy game as something of a after thought as if they've realised their error with that system. Far to late to get me interested again though. @ tattyted - not true about power/codex creep, whilst some books are more powerful than those preceding them, not all are. Look at Nids, Dark Eldar and Necrons for reference, plus all of the WFB 8E books to date (which are pitiful if you ask me). Also, many people I know, including myself rave about their mail order and cystomer service departments, they are brilliant! About 15yrs ago their mail order went into a slump when the company underwent a giant growth spurt, but they caught up up the new system in a year or two. As for Herohammer, it's not so evident these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borzag Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Another GW graduate over here I currently play Necromunda (my first ever game), Gorkamorka, and BB (although I agree that it's not a GW game, just a game that was originally released by GW and then taken over by people who actually give a damn). I used to play WHFB and 40K, but long since sold those off. Ditto with WM. What can I say, Necromunda really coloured my tastes: I'm a non-competitive skirmish boy. Army games have their place, but here in Australia where the be-all-and-end-all is high-power high-points tournaments, it was always going to be a matter of time before I switched back to the small narrative stuff. And I haven't looked back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebonstar Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 @ EbonStar - Yeah., GW is not the sharpest knife in the box. Would be better if they sold off the Specialist Games licenses to other companies that would actually do something with them. or better yet, get Jervis back and put him back in charge of that division as he pushed support for it. + alot. I was always a big fan of JJ, and that generation of GW. I honestly don't begrudge GW its success, and I'm grateful that they were about when I discovered this wonderful (not so little anymore) hobby. Sure many of the vets hate their current games but I can tell you that there has been exponential growth in the number of 40K players since the time I began, so I guess my desires for what 40K should be are proven to be in the minority. But yeah, Blood Bowl. I don't begrudge the thousands I spent on 40K/Fantasy because those gave me some years of enjoyment and learning. I am happily divorced from those games. What happened to Blood Bowl does anger me though, because I still love that game, so Blood Bowl and I are in this on-again, off-again relationship while the GW Gub'ment decides if our union would ever be legally recognized. I got no marriage there, nor closure. It's okay though- I met this new game called Malifaux and we're getting pretty serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regnak Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've started painting Space Wolves again... working on a 13th Company I haven't got anything personal against GW... just against the fat cats who run it who want money for everything and anything.. remeber when White Dwarf used to show you how to scracth build buildings or tanks etc... now its BUY BUY BUY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've started painting Space Wolves again... working on a 13th Company I haven't got anything personal against GW... just against the fat cats who run it who want money for everything and anything.. remeber when White Dwarf used to show you how to scracth build buildings or tanks etc... now its BUY BUY BUY! ah the good old days.... Still get White Dwarf though...find it a reasonable distraction in the month! Given up on 40k.....concentrating on Fantasy now. Finish building all my dwarfs, and might (i said might) be tempted to start that Vampire Counts army i always wanted to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regnak Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 ah the good old days.... Still get White Dwarf though...find it a reasonable distraction in the month! Given up on 40k.....concentrating on Fantasy now. Finish building all my dwarfs, and might (i said might) be tempted to start that Vampire Counts army i always wanted to... Those new vampire count figures are great aren't they? Really tempted to get that thing pulled by ghost horses just from a modelling/painting point of view. I occasionally get WD... depends on whats in it.. I then to have a quick flick through first... its a great toilet read! But I do miss the old days, WD was mighty back then and I never missed an issue. Would love to see some pics of your dwarf army.. always had a soft spot for the giant/troll slayers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Those new vampire count figures are great aren't they? Really tempted to get that thing pulled by ghost horses just from a modelling/painting point of view. I occasionally get WD... depends on whats in it.. I then to have a quick flick through first... its a great toilet read! But I do miss the old days, WD was mighty back then and I never missed an issue. Would love to see some pics of your dwarf army.. always had a soft spot for the giant/troll slayers! Well, once i get it all sorted and some paint on them I'll post them somewhere lol! Yes, I am the worlds laziest painter....I have almost 10000pts of dwarfs dating back to the mid/late eighties and none of them are painted! I did paint some when i originally had them, but they were quite crap paintjobs, so i stripped them all! Just need a good week or so to sort everything out and then hopefully some spare time to start painting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustcrusher Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I came back to 40k last year. After buying a ton of bikes and such for a Biker Marine army, I realized that I like 40k at 1000 and 1500 points well enough, but most people play at least 2000 in the US. I am generally not a great strategic player and often gripped with analysis paralysis- while I am slowly making progress with this, 40k's old-fashioned turn-based system exacerbates the AP problem when it manifests. I have more issues with 40k that made me realize it's not the game for me: - 40k still feels kinda clunky for such large scale battles, thanks largely to all of the crazy rules in the Codices. Even though they've misstepped a lot I feel Warpath is closer to how games with that many figures should run. - The fluff is getting tired and uninteresting. "They are the greatest threat to the galaxy/the last stand against complete ruin" ....until the next Codex. Just let the universe die or do something new with it already. They could change the game's title from Warhammer 40,000 to Space Jerks 40,000: in the grimdark of the far future, everyone's an a--hole. - Rather than creep, I call it Codex Warp. If Mat Ward wrote the codex, the force will be leagues better. If not, it will barely outdo the previous book. 40k has balance issues deliberately engineered to sell more minis. Problems with GW in general: - Wyrd, as with most other game companies, enlists actual players to playtest, expecting the beardiest to find really unbalanced stuff and report it. GW does almost all testing in-house where everyone plays fair and gentlemanly- that's a noble thing, but in playtesting you want people to try to exploit the rules so you can patch the holes. - Price hikes, independent retailer treatment, Finecast, etc. go here. This set of changes was the final straw that got me to quit for good. - GW should make Blood Bowl a semi-open license (allow the NAF or a new BBRC to control the rules development while retaining the rights to sculpts, art, fluff, etc) or actually support the game. That goes for all of the Specialist Games- either let the players do what they want as long as they aren't outright violating IP (like recasting figures would be) or support the game in earnest. - If GW decided to make new Necromunda or Blood Bowl stuff, I'd likely buy some just to show that yes, this is what I want, and I will pay if you make it. Beyond that, I will never buy GW new again (might pick up some vintage Escher gangers but I will buy used). Ironically, if I hadn't started 40k again I wouldn't have found Malifaux. Since then I've spent plenty on Malifaux, bought the entire first run of Alkemy, and a bit on Firestorm: Armada...and overall it's still less than a single 40k force would've cost me. I will always have love for Blood Bowl and Necromunda, and respect for the other Specialist Games (though Mordheim needed the rebalancing that fans have done in its wake). More than anything, it's making awesome games then dropping all support for them that I dislike the most- most of the Specialist Games are better than 40K or WFB will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jack* Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I might be stepping up my 40k gaming now we all have a copy of the 6th ed rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malandres Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 i havent played since 2nd ed in 40k and at the moment i find it a bit boring....its like its designed for a 12yr old to play and i prefer a more difficult strategy led game but every now and then id have a dabble just wouldnt call myself a 40k player anymore as such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackRussel Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Can't stand the modern 40k, like everyone has said, it is designed for the 12yr old who doesn't know how to shop around, from what I have seen 40k players in my area are playing other games now, Malifaux is doing well and so is FoW and alot of us went of to buy a Dystopian wars fleet about a week ago. I don't like the modern version, my old armies are obselete with new rules as they are a terrible choice now so I can't really play against the newer armies (people say it's not getting more powerful each time but if thyat were true Tau would still be good) and if I want to play a competetive themed army it puts me at a disadvantage, in Malifaux fluff crews work quite well and I don't have to wait for a new faction book to make a crew work and I don't get an update to bassicaly tell me I have to essentially buy a new army. Edited January 14, 2012 by JackRussel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 I played 40k off and on for about 15 years, since 2nd edition. "play" isn't the right word. I collected armies and painted them. I occaisionally got a game in if someone else in the area played. I think I have played 5 games total in 15 years. I thought about getting back into it and started assembling my Tyranids in anticipation of the new codex. I spent a lot of time converting a winged hive tyrant. The codex was released and winged hive tyrants were sadly no longer an option. My semi-playable tyranid horde was reduced to almost unplayable with a codex change. This threw me of GW, and a friend introduced me to Malifaux. Malifaux's low price point was the biggest seller for me. Since then I have bought probably $300 worth of stuff for the game, but it all started with "all I needed", 1 $25 box set. I like a lot of the models in 40K, but I have no interest in starting an army. Considering that I have 8 masters and 1 henchman for Malifaux, which gives me at least 9 different and distinct ways to play; and that for approximately the same cost I could get 1 playable army for 40k, I will not likely return to GW. I love that in Malifaux masters which are similar to each other still play differently. Lilith is different in play than Lady J, Rasputina is different than Sonnia, Hoffman is different than Ramos. It has been my experience that in 40k most Marine armies have the same feel as any other marine (or even Chaos marine) army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 I might be stepping up my 40k gaming now we all have a copy of the 6th ed rules. Just remember that it may not be real. It mentions (almost word for word) several house rules that a group of people i know in forums online use to play their games including the vehicle damage chart and To Hit tables (plus the cover save system among other things). it also lacks GWs licensing and copyrights, which all of their documentation includes no matter how early in the process. Also note that it's dated May 2011 which was before play testing began at GW and in fact at UK GD they did mention (underhandedly) that they were writing the 6E rules at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 I also miss the good old days of WD with people like Andy "Ratman" Chambers, Fat Bloke, Stillman(ia), etc. writing. The magazine actually featuring regular snippets of upcoming books, army lists, optional rules, little free games and loads of other stuff that turned it from a afternoon of reading to months of enjoyment. These days it's a flick through and maybe a article or 2 to read giving me 30 minutes of time spent for my money. I still collect the magazine for completeness since I have every issue printed to date in the UK. I don't even bother with the battle reports anymore, they used to be a fun read, now it's "new army beats up another in a one-sided rigged game that we'll try to make look interesting... and BUY THOSE NEW MODELS!" Also, let's not forget that awesome guide for building your own Baneblade all of those years ago, or the Spartan Terminator Transport! Oh, and all those really cool Ork tanks! Also, 1 of my favourite series in the maganzine was A Tale of Four Gamers, the first and 2nd series were great, but the last one for 40k seemed more like a "look, I bought all this stuff (at 50% discount!) and did this, you can do the same (albeit for twice what I paid)" and "oh I picked up this Baneblade for Apoc and you should get 5 of them coz they're THIS OSSUM!" than a series of army building projects. Who can ever forget that Daemon list from the 2nd series? That thing was phenomenal to say the least and it truly inspired me with some of my conversions. Of course, Jervis is still in WD, but he's not a Games Designer for them anymore and hasn't been for some time, he works for another company now! I have picked up the new VC book (thanks to a friend letting me use his discount at GW since I'd never pay that much for a army book) and not had a look yet. I will be returning my Isabella model though, the right hand side of the petticoat is a gaping hole and half her head is missing. Finally buy a GoldCast (I normally call there pencil eraser quality resin something far worse, but it'd not be nice for me to type it here) model and it's among the worst I've seen... And now I have to call them up and ship it back before getting a replacement. Thanks to all the idiots that ripped off GW and spoiled the no quibble replacement scheme. At least GW is free post, but still, I hope those responsible are happy with their free super heavies and land raiders (I know a guy that got 8 free land raiders out of them over a couple of year, grr) Something else of interest about Isabella, the model was ready when the last army book came out, thanks for not releasing it then... And on that matter, thanks for not releasing Black Templars which have been ready for just over 2 years and Nids wave 2 that has been ready for around 19 months now. Oh yeah, I will be getting one of those coven things pulled by all them ghosts though, just for the vampires on top (I have other plans for the mount itself, lol). To be positive, I would like to thank GW for giving GK a nice list for a change, it;'s the best thing we've had since Slaves To Darkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Just remember that it may not be real. It mentions (almost word for word) several house rules that a group of people i know in forums online use to play their games including the vehicle damage chart and To Hit tables (plus the cover save system among other things). it also lacks GWs licensing and copyrights, which all of their documentation includes no matter how early in the process. Also note that it's dated May 2011 which was before play testing began at GW and in fact at UK GD they did mention (underhandedly) that they were writing the 6E rules at that time. Ditto....I'm 99% sure these aren't anything to do with 40k 6th edition and how it will finally look. There are discussions of these 'rules' on The Warhammer Forum 40k section. I have picked up the new VC book (thanks to a friend letting me use his discount at GW since I'd never pay that much for a army book) and not had a look yet. Picked up the book myself..its on its way from Maelstrom now. I always wanted to do a VC army since about 15 years ago! Though i won't be using GW minis for rank and file...that honour will go to Mantic. Thanks to all the idiots that ripped off GW and spoiled the no quibble replacement scheme. At least GW is free post, but still, I hope those responsible are happy with their free super heavies and land raiders (I know a guy that got 8 free land raiders out of them over a couple of year, grr) *blushes* I used their replacement scheme once..not in an attempt to rip them off though. I had a dwarf battalion box from them and it was missing one sprue. I rang them and said what sprue it was, and they said they'd send a replacement. I asked if they wanted me to send the entire box back. they said it wouldn't be necessary, so i expected just the sprue to turn up later. Imagine my surprise when a new batallion box turned up! i rang them and they said it was what they did..... fair play, their customer service was great..and very prone to being ripped off, unfortunately. Oh yeah, I will be getting one of those coven things pulled by all them ghosts though, just for the vampires on top (I have other plans for the mount itself, lol). I will be getting one and using it as a Mortis engine more than likely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have to say, I'm not a fan of the new Isabella. Prefer the old aristocrat look, would've liked to see that updated. Her in plate just looks...wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I like the new Isabella, it matches the current Vlad and the other vampires far better. besides the old ones were more in their finery, the newer represent their war avatar I suppose. I just wish Isabella was metal! As for the new book, I had a look through and I am not impressed, in fact I'm dismally disappointed in it. Plus they took the Staff of Damnation and turned it into something I'd never consider using (especially for those points!) but then all of the upgrades are over priced if you ask me. Lords and Heroes and very over cost in points, Cire troops are now so cheap it'll cost about £200 to get a 1000 point army through GW (thankfully I already have more zombies and skeletons than I care to imagine) and the magic system does little to fix the crippling effect the magic system in 8th edition has on VC. You will still likely get tabled on turn 3 VC has reinforced my decision in never playing WFB until they fix the game and put it back how it should be... Well that or I'll play 3rd, 4th or 7th editions as people I know preferred those (as did I, never liked 5th or 6th edition much). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ditto....I'm 99% sure these aren't anything to do with 40k 6th edition and how it will finally look. There are discussions of these 'rules' on The Warhammer Forum 40k section. There's a 40k forum on here? Never seen that before, lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 There's a 40k forum on here? Never seen that before, lol! oi! read it....The Warhammer Forum! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 so my question is how did playing malifaux change your games workshop Relationship. 1 do you still play 2 if so what game/army(s) 3do you still enjoy it/how did it change with malifaux in the mix i will start 1 i still play every 2 weeks 2 i play 40k and have 8000p of space wolves and still getting more. i play sisters of battle 2000p worth( i started playing B4 they got the new codex to) and daemons 1500p 3 i do still enjoy it but don't have as much enthusiasm for it as i use to. i still buy things form GW but no as much as i use to i make/get from other sources as of late. the way malifaux change my GW relationship is it showed my what a game that cares about the people is like. so thank you wyrd for the great game. :collodi :marionette witch one are you master or puppet? 1. Bloodbowl, started after Malifaux 2. Orc's or undead, might play another team 3. I played using all Mailfaux models one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undisclosed Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 so my question is how did playing malifaux change your games workshop Relationship. 1 do you still play 2 if so what game/army(s) 3do you still enjoy it/how did it change with malifaux in the mix 1. Yep, play a game every couple of weeks, more so depending on when i'm at University. 2. WFB - Tomb Kings, Empire, Wood Elves 40k - Dark Eldar, Tau 3. I still enjoy it as much as i always have. Malifaux has brought something new and different for me to play but hasn't reduced by enthusiasm for the GW hobby. I enjoy both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 oi! read it....The Warhammer Forum! lol There's a Warhammer Forum here?! I can't find it, lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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