ArcticFox Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I was reading this thread and while the legality of the act seems to have been confirmed, a lot of folks feel this is a douche thing to do. My question: Why? Raspy seems to be generally regarded as a weaker Master in the game and the ability to block objective markers by dropping Ice Pillars directly on top of them would give her a significant trick to improve her overall usefulness. What makes this move such a douche trick? The Pillars are breakable so it's not like it totally screws the opponent. (As far as I know they don't disappear at the end of the turn, correct?) Forgive me if the answer should be obvious. I'm relatively new to Malifaux and it seems like sneaky combinations and thinking out of the box are the way the game is played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Wouldn't offend me. Raspy crew in general is pretty slow, having a way to slow the enemy crew down is just tactics. It's going to come down to personal feelings. Do it and if your friends complain then stop. I believe Jack Daw is broke-tastic....other people don't. Personal feeling. (And no, they don't disappear....and they stay as severe terrain once broken.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Because it's not immediately obvious, I think. People can get mad if you do something unexpected at the table. Personally I'd be more upset if I knew an opponent was holding back, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serigala Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I wouldn't have a problem with it. The difference between surrounding an objective completely with several ice pillars and placing one pillar on top is so subtle, as to be irrelevant. All's fair in love and an objective based wargame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 It's not that bad because she's slow and quite frankily, I don't mind the pillars going up. Outcasts have enough ways to avoid them and half the time, they just end up blocking her line of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticFox Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) (And no, they don't disappear....and they stay as severe terrain once broken.) Thanks. What about if they're not broken. My understanding is that they do remain? Edit: Nevermind, I found the answer here. Initially the thought of doing it did occur to me before I saw that thread, but I wasn't confident enough in my understanding of the rules to try it. I guess I should've Edited December 28, 2011 by ArcticFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I was reading this thread and while the legality of the act seems to have been confirmed, a lot of folks feel this is a douche thing to do. My question: Why? Raspy seems to be generally regarded as a weaker Master in the game and the ability to block objective markers by dropping Ice Pillars directly on top of them would give her a significant trick to improve her overall usefulness. What makes this move such a douche trick? The Pillars are breakable so it's not like it totally screws the opponent. (As far as I know they don't disappear at the end of the turn, correct?) Forgive me if the answer should be obvious. I'm relatively new to Malifaux and it seems like sneaky combinations and thinking out of the box are the way the game is played. I think the thing that is off-putting to so many people is that its not something you expect from the rules. Even with as crazy as Malifaux rules can be, you don't expect someone to just up and manifest impassible terrain on your objectives. Kill me? Sure, fine. Make ice pillars over my objective? That's just cheating. That said, I honestly don't think its that bad. There are plenty of effects in the game that screw you from moving onto/near objectives, and some of those are spammable! I ran into a line of "Shafted" markers near my objectives the last time I played, and that was 1) totally within the rules and 2) just as, if not more sucky, than the one ice pillar Rasputina's crew can generate a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticFox Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 You know, I've noticed a tendency for that to happen. (Not just in Malifaux, but in every wargame I've played.) "Cheese" usually means "unexpected" as if people expect their opponents to play within the bounds of their own assumptions... ... which means I deal with that a lot because my personal strategy is to think out of the box and do exactly that which is unexpected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebonstar Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't have a problem with it, at all and I don't really consider myself much of a competitive player. Honestly I would be concerned if a Raspy player didn't do that to me, maybe they are holding back like above, or I feel like I should point it out as an option to them. With the speed at which some crews can finish strategies, playing Raspy against them you better figure out how to slow those guys down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrouchingMoose Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Im a Raspy player and i just assumed that it wasnt legal in the first place (this is my fist table top games like this). But now i have to say that i would think something is up if i or my opponent didnt do that As for how unfair people might consider it...i think it would just be a minor annoyance more than anything. Espically when you compare it to some tactis that those same people thought were fine, but the creators even said was too powerful.... Edited December 28, 2011 by CrouchingMoose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticFox Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Man, now I'm really kicking myself for not having done it before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I would be fine if an opponent did that as long as they didn't mind when I drop an illusionary forest on the objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticFox Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I believe that very question came up in the thread I linked to above. I see no problem there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I would be fine if an opponent did that as long as they didn't mind when I drop an illusionary forest on the objective. Or use a Waldgeist to move a real one onto it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrouchingMoose Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 As far as im concerned, its the same thing...only difference is the terrain and the method of getting it there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmikehill Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 It's one of Rasputina's strategical boons. She isn't the most mobile force but with help from her spells she can lock up and slow down most opposing forces. Why wouldn't you want to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I see no issue. 1.) Its well within the raspy nature and mechanics. 2) its 100 percent rules okay. 3) its brilliant and I will point it out to our local raspy player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 That's just fething brilliant...never even thought of something like that. That's awesome, I am so going to have to use that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmikehill Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Also if he manages to drop the counter in a piece of terrain let him know to spam (0) Free Over. God help his opponent's frozen over soul... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 This is why I love malifaux so many crazy interactions that are just awesome to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Man, now I'm really kicking myself for not having done it before!I'm with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 If your opponent does something unexpected to thwart you, whose fault is that?!? Granted, if players offer to not fly around with their flying models, disregard Spirit characteristic and otherwise simplify the rules of their own crews, there is no reason not to repay them by not placing the Ice Pillars on the objectives, but as long as we play full ruleset, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I want to be able to cast Flame Wall on Ice Pillars and have them melt. Then it'd be fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrouchingMoose Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I want to be able to cast Flame Wall on Ice Pillars and have them melt. Then it'd be fair Actually, I thought about doing something similar to this in a few instances. Sometimes, I kinda want to stack terrain on top of each other and make an Ice Tower. Only question is what happens if the bottom one breaks...do the rest take falling damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Only question is what happens if the bottom one breaks...do the rest take falling damage?I would imagine so. It's just a piece of terrain with a hardness, so it can take damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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