Manifesting the Viktorias, Avatars of Slaughter

[Yosh]

Hi

i've some questions in my mind regarding the manifestation of the Viktorias:

In theory, if i got one requirement fulfilled on turn 1, i can manifest the Viktorias' avatar on 2nd turn via an (All) Action.

What happens if I:

- Activate both of the Viktorias via Companion

- Take the Manifest Action with Viktoria 1

- Replace Viktoria 2 with Viktorias, Avatars of Slaughter

Does she have an activation immediately or later in this turn (because all effects canceled on her when she manifests) or just next turn (so i can choose the avatar's placement) ?

The really interesting part is replacing a non activated, but simultaneously activated model. Is this thing discussed yet?

Yosh

[Kiing]

You know what, you're right. I don't care anymore.

Every other Avatar gets to do exactly nothing on turn 2 when they manifest, yet you all are arguing aViks gets a full round of actions. That's fine. Play against it a few times and then come back and tell me how "fair" that game was.

But I don't have a horse in this race, I don't play aViks (yet, but seeing how OP they are I'm going to start now) and I haven't played against them. So you're correct. I don't care anymore. Forget I said anything. I'm clearly wrong cause you all are so incredibly right.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

aViks don't waste time...they end time!

.....for their opponents....

To be honest, when I've done this in the past, I just replace the activated Vik and end the turn. In the book it states:

-Somewhat spoilers-

The viks freeze in the train station, with the Ronin's coming to save them. The viks THEN become possessed by the sword's powers.

So if you look at it like that, you're no longer playing two viktorias. You're playing one spirit...the spirit of the Matisumaiahfnadskjfaha (I don't have the stuff to look up the name), the viks are just dolls in order for the sword to buttsecks everyone around it.

Replace the activated Vik, remove the other (as she no longer exists but only physically) and your activation is over. Don't worry! You'll make your opponent cry next turn...

[Bigmike]

So, last night I played a 35 SS game against Raspie. I held off a turn 2 manifestation for safety purposes. Turn 3 I went first. The Vikkies go together. Vikkie 1 moved up and did sisters in spirit. Vikkie 2 then went and manifested. The avatars did a 0 action to switch places with Von-Schill. and melee mastered the hell out of 3 guy drawing me extra cards and leaving raspy in combat. Raspy being the only one left now tried to kill them and failed. Next turn. Vikkies go first, raspy had nothing. SO...point i am trying to make here. I would love for the vikkies to manifest turn 2 and get a full activation, however seeing their avatar in action and not even do everything it could do, we dont need it. The avatar can with with little to no problem at all, drop at least 2 guys a turn, if not more.

[TimeLapse]

So, last night I played a 35 SS game against Raspie. I held off a turn 2 manifestation for safety purposes. Turn 3 I went first. The Vikkies go together. Vikkie 1 moved up and did sisters in spirit. Vikkie 2 then went and manifested. The avatars did a 0 action to switch places with Von-Schill. and melee mastered the hell out of 3 guy drawing me extra cards and leaving raspy in combat. Raspy being the only one left now tried to kill them and failed. Next turn. Vikkies go first, raspy had nothing. SO...point i am trying to make here. I would love for the vikkies to manifest turn 2 and get a full activation, however seeing their avatar in action and not even do everything it could do, we dont need it. The avatar can with with little to no problem at all, drop at least 2 guys a turn, if not more.

The best master in the game to take Raspy down is Aviks, Raspy can not afford to spread out and bunches together, Perfect fodder for the Aviks player and not the best army to test them out on effectivness.

The key with the Viks is knowing how to deal with them, making sure you dont have models in charge range, killing other models that get too close or simply running away if the target model is within 8 inches of aviks.

If you move right you can cancel 1-2 activations of Aviks all together and control them.

Also since they dont have activations they can not spend AP for Victory points since they cant get to them, you control where they will go with your models. You can win the game this way if you move right.

Also for those players who think that since all the other masters cant activate that means that the Viks avatar has to be the same. first off they dont, it could be that is something they added to there model since they have alot of restrictions in there rules on how to move them and can be controled by there opponets movement and place ment. No other Avatar is has these restrictions.

Also Mcmourning may not get to use his avatar turn two but his Simulacrum 29 (the model you are want when manifesting) is placed so it gets all its actions. So it seems that the Viks are not the only avatar that gets some perks turn 2.

[Issalbotproto]

But I think Shadai is correct.

as currently worded he is actually misunderstanding the ruling tyhat I along with 5 or so people have tried to explain, we are not arguing that it should stay that way were are simply stating that is how it is worded, and as such should be played UNTIL a rule marshal says otherwise, we bring up things like this to make sure we are doing it correctly, and if the wording is incorrect it is better to have it brought to the Rule Marshals attention so they can fix it

We by no means want to break the game we just wont to make sure we can squeeze every last drop of ability out of our models just like a General on the Battlefield

I would also like to note that I did infact get trounced by the aViks, but I refuse to be sore about a game and want to find a way to beat them other than screaming OP OP OP IS TEH STUPID cuddle PLOX!!

We as Miniwar gamers should be better than that, this forum is constructive ruling solving, it is not a place for personal emotions or personal attacks

[Shadai]

as currently worded he is actually misunderstanding the ruling tyhat I along with 5 or so people have tried to explain,

See? I'm misunderstanding a ruling that these 6 rules Marshalls have patiently tried to explain to me. Clearly, I must be wrong. After all, 6 Rules Marshalls have already made the ruling.

I mean, healthy debates are bad for the game. 6 people told me so!

Edited April 24, 2012 by Shadai

[MrSpiffypants]

Hello,

I'm pretty new to this game, so me talking about balance or rules makes about as much sense as a chocolate tea cup. That said, the way the information has been presented here leads me to believe that it's possible to activate the Avatar after manifesting, and that this might be considered a little overpowered.

Hmm, side note here:

Awhile back I was helping my friend, filling in for him at his GW store. I remember getting into this one sided debate with this jerk who kept insisting that his Dark Elf sword said "you can never modify it's strength bonus". While I patiently tried to explain that "you can still destroy the weapon, thus removing the strength bonus".

Long debate, didn't accomplish anything, and make me want to slap the idiot. Worst thing was I took from it a crummy feeling that I was dealing with power gaming jerks.

(I still feel this way, and it sure helped with my exodus from GW)

Near the end I felt like I was talking to a brick. There was no new ideas coming out of his mouth and things turned a little snarky.

The biggest problem with this post is no new ideas are popping out. I sure haven't helped here, heh. If you feel strongly please continue posting your ideas, just make it entertaining with new ways of looking at the problem.

Ray

ps: Everyone here has made a pretty good impression that the Vik's aren't just point and click, and that maybe I should try them as my next crew. Thank you for that.

[Issalbotproto]

See? I'm misunderstanding a ruling that these 6 rules Marshalls have patiently tried to explain to me. Clearly, I must be wrong. After all, 6 Rules Marshalls have already made the ruling.

I mean, healthy debates are bad for the game. 6 people told me so!

I'm sorry you feel the need to use sarcasm, but we have seen your argument, and responded quoting rules, and you have just thrown them out the window, insisting the wording on the aVikis is the exact same as on the Coryphees

I understand you find the ability to activate the aVikis with all their AP the same turn they manifest to be "OP" but that is not a question of the rules, rules cannot be personal, they have to have 1 absolute definitive answer and that is what we on this forum aim to make sure happens

If we have somehow offended you I, and I'm sure everyone else, am sorry to have done so, but we only aim to get the rule absolute.

[Cunning]

I think we should just wait for a response from a rules marshall. This is getting far too heated. There's nothing new to be said here.

[Kadeton]

The Replace rules, and rules that reference Replace, really need to be reworked to avoid this sort of thing. There shouldn't be any need for a rule to say things like "sacrifice one model and replace the other one" unless that's actually what is supposed to happen - the Replace rules should allow for the replacement of multiple models without anyone needing to be sacrificed.

[Cadfan]

The Replace rules, and rules that reference Replace, really need to be reworked to avoid this sort of thing. There shouldn't be any need for a rule to say things like "sacrifice one model and replace the other one" unless that's actually what is supposed to happen - the Replace rules should allow for the replacement of multiple models without anyone needing to be sacrificed.

Or worse, in the Coryphee's case. Sacrifice both models. Replace one. Bwuh?