Cadfan

Oops. Miner Miner Kang Johan Railworker Railworker Railworker And Mei. That Resser guy with the silly hat is no longer the most pimpin' Master in Malifaux.

Kang Miner Miner Miner Railworker Railworker Railworker ...and Mei. I hereby dub Mei's crew "Its Rainin' Men."

The ranged companion ability would be a lot more valuable if Colette fielded more actual combat troops. The basic problem with Angelica is that she's a support model that supports Performers, who are themselves support models. It get redundant fast.

Low SS isn't a weakness. All masters can run 8 SS if they want. Having an SS of 2 instead of 4 doesn't mean you're actually 2 SS behind, it just means your crew might be microscopically smaller.

The best help I can be is to tell you that there's a Malifaux community in Fort Wayne. That's two hours away... but we do have some organized play where you could show up for a day and play multiple games, which might justify the travel time a little more.

Poison doesn't say "begin their activation." It says "activates." So either it should check at step 2, or else it should be adjusted. http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?27987-Poison-Errata

Alright, since no one else can choke out the real answer to this thread, and after 3 pages I've read between the lines enough to figure it out... When using Companion, you do all "beginning of activation" checks and resolution at the point where you start spending AP on the model. EXCEPT, as a total one off, you check the guild hound's +1 Walk at the point where you declare simultaneous activation. No one, including Rules Marshals, will tell you that the Hounds are a one off, and that no general principle justifies it. And if you want to play this game in tournaments, make sure to bookmark this forum the same way you bookmark a textbook before an exam.

Does this forum have an ignore feature? Oh look, it does.

I get it, guys. If someone had just said up front, "The rules say X but they were supposed to say Y, and Ratty says Y and he's an authority, so just go with that until the rules can be revised," then I'd have done so. Instead, this whole thread was a very "emperor's new clothes" experience for me.

Ok, there are a lot of people "telling me how it works" but not a lot of people telling me how they know that. I've got a rule that says that X happens when a model "begins its activation." I've got an ability (companion) that says that you "activate" several models simultaneously. My assumption is that when you "activate" a model, that means you "begin its activation." So all the stuff that happens when a model "begins its activation" happen when you companion the model. Please do not tell me what, if any, of this is wrong. Please tell me why. Or if there's been a clarification to explain the intent behind the rules, please point me to it so I have something to refer to if/when this comes up again.

Based on what Ratty is saying, if I companion chain 3 models together inside a terrifying effect, and the first two kill the monster creating the terrifying effect, the 3rd would still have to make a morale duel. Is this right?

That doesn't change the problem.

I initially thought that the Hounds worked like this: Two adjacent hounds use companion. The first hound begins spending AP while adjacent to another hound. He gets a free walk for beginning his activation. He follows it with some more walking, or charging, or whatever, ending many inches away from the first dog. Then the second hound begins spending AP, eg, he begins his activation. He is not near any other dogs. So no free walk. But then I was told that hounds work like this: Two adjacent hounds use companion. They both "begin their activation" immediately upon declaration of companion, granting them both a free walk, which they take immediately. Then the first dog spends his AP, then the second dog spends his AP. But if using companion "activates" both models, then terrifying should apply on declaration of companion. See rules manual page 57, terrifying happens when a model begins its activation in range of a terrifying effect. I don't have the hound's card. If there's something on there that makes my concern a moot point, please let me know.

How do you tell the difference?

Hmm. I was told that guild hounds both get their free walk if they activate simultaneously using Companion, even if one guild hound uses that walk activation to travel too far away from the other to receive the free walk.

But with Companion, all models in the companion chain simultaneously begin their activation.

I companion three models together, one of which is inside the reach of a terrifying enemy. Do I make the check for terrifying immediately upon declaring the companion group? Or do I make it once I start spending individual AP on the specific model next to the terrifying enemy.

1. Yes. 2. Yes. Your question is really about the general rules for the "slow" effect. If your model gains slow during its own activation, if it has general AP remaining, it suffers the effect of slow immediately. If it has no general AP remaining, the slow sticks around until it can occur properly. The easiest way to remember is that "slow" essentially reads, "lose the next general AP you could have spent."

She's powerful, but she's got strengths and weaknesses. One of her strengths is that she uses Disappearing Act against lists that focus heavily on single, expensive, non master models. It sounds like you were using two of those. As for weaknesses, the most obvious is that the highest wound model in her crew has 8 wounds, and she has 6. If you attack her she almost always has to burn a soulstone. And all of her spells require her to spend soulstones, so the more she burns, the less she can do. If she wants to do the sacrifice trick she did to you, it actually costs two soulstones each time she tries to cast it. Summoning her doves costs another soulstone each time. Giving herself reactivate costs a soulstone. One per turn is free, but if she's taking an attack each round, going for reactivate, summoning a dove, and trying to do a good spell, she's probably going down 3 or 4 soulstones per turn. When she runs out, she's just a 6 defense, 6 wound model.

Hmm, you're right. With Menace, I'd assumed that you moved forward whether or not your target resisted. But I suppose that if that's the case, then you should move with Blinding whether or not your target resisted. But I'm fairly sure that Expensive Gift should definitely not give you a soulstone if the target resists.

I don't see where it says that only "defenders" have to make resist duels. It says all models who can be affected. The Coryphee is a model. It is affected. But looking at some other spells, I do see some situations that would be VERY screwed up under my interpretation (Expensive Gift). So I guess I'll go with yours.

Cassandra's "Swirl of Motion" trigger reads: "Push this model up to 4" after it successfully casts this spell." Coryphee's "Swirl of Motion" trigger reads: "After successfully casting this spell, push this model up to 4"." Coryphee's "Blinding" spell reads: "Dg 2/3+Slow/3+Paralyzed. Push this model up to 3"." Rules Manual page 50 reads, "A spell's casting cost is the TN the caster needs to equal or exceed to successfully cast the spell with a simple Ca-> CC duel." Rules Manual page 51 reads, "If a Rst stat is listed for a spell, when it is successfully cast any model that could be affected by it must win a resist duel by exceeding the casting total or suffer the spell's effects. The resist duel occurs after the caster has completed its casting duel and successfully cast the spell. Friendly models that could be affected by spells requiring resist duels must resist as normal, but when determining totals, can choose to tie the casting total and suffer the spell's effects." Rules Manual page 53 reads, "The caster may now declare that it is using one trigger that it has met the suit requirements for. The trigger's description will indicate when its effects are applied." So here's what I'm getting from this. 1. Cassandra casts Breathe Fire, and gets a mask. She triggers Swirl of Motion. She immediately pushes 4, because this trigger specifically states that it occurs after the spell is successfully cast. AFTER SHE HAS LEFT, the target may make a resist duel. Her trigger is not dependent on the target's resist duel, just on whether she successfully cast the spell. Any effects the target make trigger that occur on successfully or unsuccessfully resisting a spell would occur after Cassandra had already pushed 4, and possibly left their range. This would include Slow to Die. On the other hand, Cassandra would not be able to observe the damage flip before deciding whether to push away with Swirl of Motion. 2. Coryphee Duet casts Blinding. They succeed on the cast, and get a mask. If they choose to trigger Swirl of Motion, they immediately push 4, before the target makes a resist duel, and before damage is flipped. Then all models affected by Blinding make a resist duel. The Coryphee is a model affected by Blinding ("Push this model up to 3."). The Coryphee can choose to tie this resist duel, and accept this affect. Meanwhile the target must also make its resist duel. So first of all, can we confirm that this is correct? Second, what's the order of operation on the Coryphee's 3" push from Blinding? If my spell has two effects, one of which is to inflict damage on you, and the other of which is to push me 3", where am I located when Slow to Die (or another relevant triggered ability) takes place?

No, that states that the first soulstone "this model" discards each turn is not deducted. Colette is not the one discarding for initiative. Although I've also been playing it wrong. I didn't realize that "each turn" and "each activation" are different, so I've been giving myself free soulstones. As far as I can tell, in actual practice, artificial soulstone just gives you your reactivate ability every round without paying the soulstone cost.

What he probably did was what I did: Played it as written. Pick a model with Companion. Activate it. Also activate any models within 6 inches who have the referenced trait or name in the parenthesis of the first model's Companion power. Do their individual turns in whatever order you want. The written words weren't that hard to play. They just don't mean anything like what the rule was apparently intended to mean. Exactly. No one in their right mind would possibly interpret the words on the page to mean what Keltheos posted above. But they could interpret it to mean something else, though.

Yeah, I'm about to get enormously burned because this "clarification" is really errata, and because its hidden away in the middle of nowhere, I didn't know about it. I insisted upon playing the rules as they're written, to the detriment of my opponent, because neither of us knew about this rules change. My opponent is going to be mad about this. The biggest difference is for Companion (Master) models in crews that can have multiple models with that trait. Before, you had to activate a model with Companion to use the Companion ability. So you might activate the drill sergeant, and companion over to Lucius. Or you might activate the guard captain, and companion to Lucius. But you couldn't activate Lucius and companion to both, because Lucius isn't a model with companion. Now you can activate Lucius and companion to both, even though Lucius doesn't have the Companion ability. That's a clear rules change: "Before activating a model with Companion," was the old rules. The new rules are probably something like, "Before activating a model with Companion or within 6 inches of a model with Companion if that model's Companion ability references this model." That's NOT the same. And its NOT helpful to hide this in a forum thread in the rules discussion area.