Assimilating stacked Armor

[Fastenhate]

1) Hoffman, Guardian and Peacekeeper are all in base to base. The Guardian casts (0) Stalwart giving Peacekeeper +2 armor with his +2 innate armor. If Hoffman then assimilates Armor from the Peacekeeper does he get +4 or just the PK's +2?

2) Can the armor be assimilated twice and stack, from either the same construct or another?

Not ver practical but I was just thinking if I wanted to survive a Leveticus Severe 12 Death Touch.

P.S. and of course Protected by machines does not stack with any of this.

Thanks

[Lucidicide]

I may recall this incorrectly, but I think you can only assimilate things that are on the model's card to begin with... and thus couldn't get armor from other sources that is stacking up.

[sephiroa]

I may recall this incorrectly, but I think you can only assimilate things that are on the model's card to begin with... and thus couldn't get armor from other sources that is stacking up.

already been said that you can assimilate evrything, even the reactivate that hoffman gave to a peacekeeper (or somethin else)

(unless this has been changed recently)

[Lucidicide]

already been said that you can assimilate evrything, even the reactivate that hoffman gave to a peacekeeper (or somethin else)

(unless this has been changed recently)

Then I probably recall incorrectly :-P

[LoboStele]

already been said that you can assimilate evrything, even the reactivate that hoffman gave to a peacekeeper (or somethin else)

(unless this has been changed recently)

Yeah, currently this is the ruling. Keep an eye on the 'Is Reactivate a Talent' thread to see if they end up changing it. For now, that's the RAW.

But, you can actually get quite a bit higher than just Armor +4 on Hoffman. Keep looking for other combinations. You're on the right path though.

[FearLord]

I may recall this incorrectly, but I think you can only assimilate things that are on the model's card to begin with...

You may be thinking of "Maintain Machines" which only allows a model to ignore its listed abilities (those on its card) which is different to the wording of "Assimilate" (which doesn't specify 'listed')...

[Lucidicide]

You may be thinking of "Maintain Machines" which only allows a model to ignore its listed abilities (those on its card) which is different to the wording of "Assimilate" (which doesn't specify 'listed')...

That does ring a bell...

...especially if it helps me be less wrong

[Cadilon]

But, you can actually get quite a bit higher than just Armor +4 on Hoffman. Keep looking for other combinations. You're on the right path though.

The one I am thinking of is Guardian's Shield Wall on Peacekeeper, giving him +6 Armor, which Hoffman can then Assimilate from the Peacekeeper. There is the base-to-base issue of Shield Wall to deal with, but I think as long as Hoffman is b2b it should work just the same.

Are there others?

[sephiroa]

The one I am thinking of is Guardian's Shield Wall on Peacekeeper, giving him +6 Armor, which Hoffman can then Assimilate from the Peacekeeper. There is the base-to-base issue of Shield Wall to deal with, but I think as long as Hoffman is b2b it should work just the same.

Are there others?

what, wait? thats armor +10??

i need to use ramos a bit more i think

[Cadilon]

what, wait? thats armor +10??

i need to use ramos a bit more i think

I don't think you can stack armor from the same source, can you? Don't have either the RM or cards here at work to check.

I'd assumed that since the Peacekeeper's +4 came from Shield Wall, it would not stack with Hoffman's +4 from the same Shield Wall.

I think it would just be +6 total on Hoffman. Would love to here differently though!

[FearLord]

what, wait? thats armor +10??

No, that's armor +6 - Hoffman's "Protected by Machines" doesn't stack with any other Armor that he might Assimilate...

However, with 2 Guardians, you could Shield Wall a PeaceKeeper with both, and then take the armor with "Protected by Machines" for a Total of +10...

[sephiroa]

I don't think you can stack armor from the same source, can you? Don't have either the RM or cards here at work to check.

I'd assumed that since the Peacekeeper's +4 came from Shield Wall, it would not stack with Hoffman's +4 from the same Shield Wall.

I think it would just be +6 total on Hoffman. Would love to here differently though!

I'm not sure,,

4+ from shield wall

4+ from shield wall and 2+ armor, this could stay like this, or, it would become 6+ armor and could be assimilated (and i think it's the last one)

but even so, 6+ is really nice

[sephiroa]

No, that's armor +6 - Hoffman's "Protected by Machines" doesn't stack with any other Armor that he might Assimilate...

However, with 2 Guardians, you could Shield Wall a PeaceKeeper with both, and then take the armor with "Protected by Machines" for a Total of +10...

I was not talkin about protected by machines, shield wall is for every model in b2b with gaurdian,

so let's say hoff is in b2b with gaurdian an peackeeper as well,

hoffman gets 4+ from shield wall, and could assimilate the 6+ from peackeeper

[FearLord]

I was not talkin about protected by machines, shield wall is for every model in b2b with gaurdian,

so let's say hoff is in b2b with gaurdian an peackeeper as well,

hoffman gets 4+ from shield wall, and could assimilate the 6+ from peackeeper

But what would be the point? "Protected by Machines" is not optional, so therefore, if he were base to base with the Guardian, there would be a construct within 3" and he would have to choose one gain the armor of (which doesn't stack with any other armor) - Therefore it isn't really important what buffs Hoffman's armor directly, because he will be using a friendly construct's anyway - it is only worth stacking armor onto another construct for Hoffman to pull off...

In your example, he would have to choose either +4 (Guardian's armor) or +6 (PeaceKeeper's armor)...

[Mr_Smigs]

why is he getting to copy multiple abilities as a single one?

[FearLord]

why is he getting to copy multiple abilities as a single one?

Its a single ability - its right there in the rules manual - "armor #"...

[Mr_Smigs]

Its a single ability - its right there in the rules manual - "armor #"...

it says the ability stacks at resolution,

not that they combine to form voltron.

[Iron Skies]

Ok going to break it down for everyone.

Hoffman, Peacekeeper and Guardian are all in base to base contact.

Guardian casts shield wall.

Hoffman gets armour +4. Total armour to 4

Peacekeeper gets armour +4. Total armour to 6

Hoffman activates and assimilates armour from the peacekeeper

Hoffman gains armour +6. Total armour now 10.

He's copying the armour from the peacekeeper at that point not shield wall (Though still gains the armour +4 from that as he is in base contact with the Guardian)

[FearLord]

it says the ability stacks at resolution,

not that they combine to form voltron.

"Protected by Machines" says "Nominate a friendly construct within 3". This model gains Armor equal to the nominated Construct's when applying the damage. This armor does not stack with any other armor."

You take the armor on the construct, whatever source its from.

You cannot have the armor ability multiple times - this is because the effect stacks as per the rules on p.20 - the model simply adds to its armor ability - if a model can copy the armor ability some how, it can take it lock stock and barrel (unless the ability to copy specifies 'listed abilities' in which case it can only copy things on the card, and by extension the level of armor on the card).

[Mr_Smigs]

this is where i'm confused, the difference between the Armor ability, and Armor at resolution

[FearLord]

Ok going to break it down for everyone.

Hoffman, Peacekeeper and Guardian are all in base to base contact.

Guardian casts shield wall.

Hoffman gets armour +4. Total armour to 4

Peacekeeper gets armour +4. Total armour to 6

Hoffman activates and assimilates armour from the peacekeeper

Hoffman gains armour +6. Total armour now 10.

He's copying the armour from the peacekeeper at that point not shield wall (Though still gains the armour +4 from that as he is in base contact with the Guardian)

This is wrong, for the reasons I have already stated - "Protected by Machines" is a 'Must' effect - Hoffman must take the armor of one of the constructs within 3" of himself and this cannot stack with any other armor effect on him.

[FearLord]

this is where i'm confused, the difference between the Armor ability, and Armor at resolution

The armor# ability is what it is - all effects that grant plain armor# to a model stack. At resolution abilities like Magic resistant#, bulletproof# and evasive# have the effect of adding their number to the models armor# ability for the duration of the attack.

[Iron Skies]

Sorry when were we talking about protected by machines?

And as my example shows I have said assimilate not protected by machines

[Ratty]

each effect with a different name that grants armor would be an individual effect and they would total when your resolving damage.

eg... a Moleman would have Armor +1 and a Dug In effect.. so when you take damage you would have Armor +4.. but at any other point they would be an effect and an ability. So if you had a way of copying one thing off the Moleman you could choose Armor +1 or Dug In, not the entire Armor +4 stack.

[FearLord]

Sorry when were we talking about protected by machines?

And as my example shows I have said assimilate not protected by machines

'Protected by Machines' MUST resolve if Hoffman suffers damage and there is a friendly construct within 3". MUST.

This means, that if Hoffman was base to base with the Guardian (which he must be in your example) he has at least 1 construct within 3" and therefore MUST take it (or another construct's) armor. This CANNOT stack with any other armor.

If Hoffman were to Assimilate the PeaceKeeper's armor in your example, he would indeed have armor +10, but he would not be allowed to use it, since he MUST use either the Guardian's armor or the PeaceKeepers (or another friendly construct if one is in 3"). He takes the best available (the PeaceKeeper's +6) and CANNOT stack this with any other armor (the shield wall +4) and so reduces incoming damage by 6...

[Mr_Smigs]

each effect with a different name that grants armor would be an individual effect and they would total when your resolving damage.

eg... a Moleman would have Armor +1 and a Dug In effect.. so when you take damage you would have Armor +4.. but at any other point they would be an effect and an ability. So if you had a way of copying one thing off the Moleman you could choose Armor +1 or Dug In, not the entire Armor +4 stack.

so, if you are copying "the armor" of the construct,

and it has a stack of multiple "armor" abilities,

you only get to pick one, right?