Hamelin's Irresistable Lure

[Tiny]

OK first off i had a quick look through the forums to see if this had already been asked and couldnt see it anywhere so apologies if it already has been asked.

Ok irresistable Lure. RAW if i cast the spell multiple times in a turn and the first time a model ends in base contact but doesn't die the 2nd time i cast it, the model wont take the damage flip. Is this correct? And the way it was intended to work?

As a secondary question, with a spell like that do i determine who resists and in which order?

[Necromorph]

This same question was asked a while back and I don't remember if we ever got a RM response.

Because it is resistible and has an uncheatable dg flip, I've always played it as the 2nd time you cast, the affected models take a 0" move (which is possible) thus ending in base contact, and taking another dg flip. I could be wrong, but like I said, I can't remember if we ever got an official response in the last thread.

As far as resists go, I'd imagine that the opponent gets to choose the order. There is no wording in the spell otherwise, and it is his models that are resisting a pretty normal pulse spell, I don't see why it would change how resists work.

[Sandwich]

This same question was asked a while back and I don't remember if we ever got a RM response.

Because it is resistible and has an uncheatable dg flip, I've always played it as the 2nd time you cast, the affected models take a 0" move (which is possible) thus ending in base contact, and taking another dg flip. I could be wrong, but like I said, I can't remember if we ever got an official response in the last thread.

As far as resists go, I'd imagine that the opponent gets to choose the order. There is no wording in the spell otherwise, and it is his models that are resisting a pretty normal pulse spell, I don't see why it would change how resists work.

If I remember the post correctly, we did.

And the models continue to suffer Dg flips.

[Necromorph]

Yeah I thought so, but couldn't remember for sure.

[Stern]

can be a horrible and cheeky spell! especially if you spam it

[magicpockets]

and has an uncheatable dg flip

Nope, an unmodifiable damage flip - so damage can't be modified by "damage modifiers" such as armour etc. Nothing to stop you cheating it and don't forget it's based on a duel so -

tie = :-fate

win by 1-5 =

win by 6-10 = straight flip

win by 11+ =

to the flip itself

[Hatchethead]

Hmm. I thought "unmodifiable" referred to the fate modifiers. So no positive or negative twisting, it's always a straight flip that can be cheated. I've never considered the term might also apply to Armor and the like. I could be wrong, of course. Hmm.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Hatchethead

[magicpockets]

On a re-read the rule book sets out modifiers as a number of things - "damage modifiers" are armour etc, "casting modifiers" result from (2) channel etc and are also the or on damage flips

So we may need someone to let us know which modifiers it is referring to - can you get a damage flip from winning the duel by 11+? What if you channel the spell? Does armour (magical resistance) reduce the damage?

[ZiggyQubert]

um it would be an unmodifiable damage flip, so just the flip would be unmodifiable, and anything else could be modified (the damage could be modified by armor etc)

[magicpockets]

So does it cuddle damage from (2) focus for casting? can you cheat it?

[Sedaris]

:: Poking this thread with a stick::

Really need definition of unmodifiable and exact workings of irresistible lure.

My local henchmen said it means fate +/- don't come into play and that the flip is cheatable.

[Sedaris]

::poke::

So does anyone have any insight or further thoughts on this?

Using the rules manual pdf and correlating with my print copy, The term modifier is found to be used when discussing:

Action Modifiers

~Fast&Slow

Stat Modifiers

Fate Modifiers

~+/- flips from effects&duel totals

Melee Modifiers

~Charge

-Ranged Modifiers

~Focus

-Casting Modifiers

~Channel

Damage Modifiers

~Appears to mean Armor?

"A model may Cheat Fate on a Damage Flip unless one or more - apply to the flip. Triggers declared during a Duel, or damage modifiers from game effects, are applied after a model decided whether or not to Cheat Fate." pg45

pg7 Math Order indicates that that Armor is an example of a modifier to damage.

So at no point does it mention cheating as modifying. So my interpretation would be that unmodifiable here is either referring to Damage modifiers in that it shouldnt be reduced by magic resistance.

(Meaning that +&- fate twists still apply and so does cheating then)

Or that fate twists do not matter to the damage flip so it can still be cheated as its not at a negative flip. (Damage modifiers such as magic resistance may or might not then be applied)

My thoughts would be that fate modifiers are applicable, the spell should be subject to them. It's cheatable and then that any changes to the amount of damage flipped are ignored such as magic resistance

In this case is using a soulstone for damage prevention considered a damage modifier? It is changing the value of the damage before it is being dealt exactly as described under the 'Math Order' example with Armor.

*So:

1)do fate flips apply to irresistible lure?

2)can you cheat irresistible lure's damage flip?

3)is irresistible lure's damage subject to damage modifiers? (magic resistance)

4)What all is considered a damage modifier in the above case?

5)Is damage prevention from soulstones considiered a damage modifier?

Edited October 28, 2011 by Sedaris

[Issalbotproto]

I'm pretty sure unmodified means no fate modifiers.

[Necromorph]

I'm pretty sure unmodified means no fate modifiers.

How I'd always played it. It's a single, unmodified and unmodifiable flip per model that touches him.

[magicpockets]

Can it be cheated though? I'm guessing it's really meant as uncheatabe - so you get h negative/positives but can't cheat it

[Omenbringer]

Hmm. I thought "unmodifiable" referred to the fate modifiers. So no positive or negative twisting, it's always a straight flip that can be cheated. I've never considered the term might also apply to Armor and the like. I could be wrong, of course. Hmm.

You are correct, unmodifiable means that the and do not apply it is always a straight flip. Because it is a damage flip it may be cheated.

Armor and Magic Resistance don't modify the flip only the result so it still applies.

*So:

1)do fate flips apply to irresistible lure?

2)can you cheat irresistible lure's damage flip?

3)is irresistible lure's damage subject to damage modifiers? (magic resistance)

4)What all is considered a damage modifier in the above case?

5)Is damage prevention from soulstones considiered a damage modifier?

1) No, they do not because it is unmodifiable (doesn't care about things like from Hard to Wound or degree of success)

2) Yes, because it is a nuetral damage flip (i.e. no modifier)

3) Yes, because the Damage flip itself is not being modified only the result of it (i.e. after the damage amount has been determined by the straight flip)

4) Only the and twists from things like degree of success and abilities like Hard to Wound (see number 1)

5) No, Damage Prevention from Soulstones is done after the Damage has been determined.

[Sedaris]

Ok, so I guess I'll be taking OmenBringer's interpretation for how it works until it gets any kind of marshal's official call

~Thanks