Story tournament

[sephiroa]

after I finished my first tourney, i really want to organize some more, but now I want a special one.

what would you guys think about a kind of story tournemant.

for instance

accumulation format from gaining grounds.

choose 1 master to play with (since it IS a story about your master)

first game:

25ss list, the starterbox has to be in the list.

see this game as a patrol, or small quest you have to do, flipping for strategies individually from core strategies

second game:

30ss list, after the last patrol/ small mission, you are send on a bigger mission here only 75% from the starterbox has to be in the list. (21ss starterbox, 16ss has to be in the list)

flip for strategies on the individual encounter chart

thirth game:

35ss list, now, you are at war, and you go all out against your opponont, 35ss list how you want it, flip on the shared encounter chart (when shared slaughter reflip)

forth game:

20ss list (i want comments in this)

this is after the big battle, your master has suffered some injuries and his/her armie has got some beating and you want to finish this last encounter, it ends here

no more than 2 of the same minions (this so spamming is not an option and yes even hamelin has to do this), maximum 1 unique, maximum 1 rare, totems are allowed and do not count towards the maximum unique.

shared slaughter, chose schemes

well, this is what i have in mind i made this so cheesy lists can only be used once or twice (30ss and 35ss), but not the complete tourney, so you can't win the tourney with an OP or broken list, you need some skill as well

tell me what you think of this and what you think can be better

cheers

seph

[Koali]

sounds like fun...

But i think the starterboxes are very difficult to include in such Tournamentbased things because some of them are realy weak compaered with others...

In this last scenario what did you do about Summoners like Kirai oder Nicodem...?

[Dolomyte]

Love the idea, agree that the starter box limitation might cause some issues, especially since some are higher then 25 points (I think? could be wrong)

Might be better off going with 50% of the starterbox must be present in game 1, 25% in game 2.

[Fog]

Some people just don't have the starters. I know federal players who bought Pandora or the viks or mcmourning solo.

[sephiroa]

sounds like fun...

But i think the starterboxes are very difficult to include in such Tournamentbased things because some of them are realy weak compaered with others...

In this last scenario what did you do about Summoners like Kirai oder Nicodem...?

could be, tell me, wich starterbox would you say is weak?

and what do you mean with the last scenario? summoned models do not count towards the limit, so yes, you can summon a 3th punk zombie or a 3th onryo

Love the idea, agree that the starter box limitation might cause some issues, especially since some are higher then 25 points (I think? could be wrong)

Might be better off going with 50% of the starterbox must be present in game 1, 25% in game 2.

i don't know, i know zoraida is exactly 25,,

maybe i should say at least 75% of the starterbox have to be in the list (rounding up)

and game 2, 50% of the startbox has to be in the list

Some people just don't have the starters. I know federal players who bought Pandora or the viks or mcmourning solo.

everyone i know who competes in tourneys here in Belgium bought the starters so no problems here

[Clousseau]

Sounds like a good idea, but the actual detail will take some care and trial & error I think.

Other alternative would be to use the 4 linked strategies used at Gencon.

[sephiroa]

Sounds like a good idea, but the actual detail will take some care and trial & error I think.

Other alternative would be to use the 4 linked strategies used at Gencon.

and why some trial and error? starterboxes are good, i can't think of any master who will perform bad with his/her starterbox.

and using the 75% and 50% will be alright, i could change it to 50% and 25%, but i don't think that could work.

i could change it, to the number of models, but some boxes have only 3 minions. so i think the 75% and 50% will be good

i was thinkin about that, but the carver will be a problem, don't you think?

[Mike3838]

McMourning's and Marcus's starter boxes are pants.

I like the idea though, I'd love for there to be more story based tournaments about. Will the story feed into the strategies though or is it just driving game size and restricting crew selection?

Mike

[Koali]

Well for Starters i´d like to say that Marcus, Victorias, McMourning are not that competatentive... (is it how you spell it?)

Then there are the Boxes that are missing some important stuff to work:

Nicodem, again McMourning, Leveticus

And Boxes that are worth more than 25 Points (Perdita)

[Hookers]

its a pretty solid idea to start

but people dont like being told what to play with. the starter boxes are not balanced at all for starters (like some have said), and there are a couple that are more than 25 pts.

the way that I encouraged people to take certain models in my story encounter tourney was to make strategies that gave them VP for accomplishing certain things with those models, and had the same number of points tied to those model for the opponent. that way if the player chose not to take the model, it would deny himself the same amount of VP that it denied his opponent, but he wasn't ever forced to take anything.

[sephiroa]

McMourning's and Marcus's starter boxes are pants.

I like the idea though, I'd love for there to be more story based tournaments about. Will the story feed into the strategies though or is it just driving game size and restricting crew selection?

Mike

mc mourning, that will be because of nurses, marcus, depends, rattler is good, cerb is good, and myranada is good. but not always.

you can think for a story (like i did in the first post)

and the restrictions are story based,

like game 4, the restrictions are there because your army fought hard, your minions are in the hospital, and you have a few minions left.

game 1: your master is relative new to Malifaux, and has only a few minions available, (starterboxes are fluffwise what they standard have, mc mourning has sebastian, a flesh construct and 2 nurses, storywise every box is)

game 2: your master has completed some missions, and now has some minions available, but still needs some of his core to use.

game 3: your master is a veteran in Malifaux, and has a solid army of minions,

[sephiroa]

Well for Starters i´d like to say that Marcus, Victorias, McMourning are not that competatentive... (is it how you spell it?)

Then there are the Boxes that are missing some important stuff to work:

Nicodem, again McMourning, Leveticus

And Boxes that are worth more than 25 Points (Perdita)

thats why the 75% and 50% so you can add the missing piece

its a pretty solid idea to start

but people dont like being told what to play with. the starter boxes are not balanced at all for starters (like some have said), and there are a couple that are more than 25 pts.

the way that I encouraged people to take certain models in my story encounter tourney was to make strategies that gave them VP for accomplishing certain things with those models, and had the same number of points tied to those model for the opponent. that way if the player chose not to take the model, it would deny himself the same amount of VP that it denied his opponent, but he wasn't ever forced to take anything.

there not told what to play with, they only have a limitid number of minions to choose from again thats why the 75% and 50% in the games give you the chance to choose the minions you want from the box, and add stuff,

i could change it to 50% and 25%, what do you think about that?

[sephiroa]

okay how about some changes:

first game:

25ss list, at least 15 ss has to be from the starterbox

see this game as a patrol, or small quest you have to do, flipping for strategies individually from core strategies

second game:

30ss list, after the last patrol/ small mission, you are send on a bigger mission here only at least 10ss has to be from the starterbox

flip for strategies on the individual encounter chart

thirth game:

35ss list, now, you are at war, and you go all out against your opponont, 35ss list how you want it, flip on the shared encounter chart (when shared slaughter reflip)

forth game:

20ss list (i want comments in this)

this is after the big battle, your master has suffered some injuries and his/her armie has got some beating and you want to finish this last encounter, it ends here

no more than 2 of the same minions (this so spamming is not an option and yes even hamelin has to do this), maximum 1 unique, maximum 1 rare, totems are allowed and do not count towards the maximum unique.

shared slaughter, chose schemes

any thoughts about this?

[Koali]

Sounds better to me...

Do you test this?...

#

I´d like to hear about testing experiences...

Maybe i´ll copy this for own events...

BTW... *offtopic*

Do you upload any results from your last Tournament to T3?

I´d like to see who entered which rank with witch crew (Master)...

[sephiroa]

Sounds better to me...

Do you test this?...

#

I´d like to hear about testing experiences...

Maybe i´ll copy this for own events...

BTW... *offtopic*

Do you upload any results from your last Tournament to T3?

I´d like to see who entered which rank with witch crew (Master)...

I'm going to test it yes and with different crews.

i think that specific ss cost will be better.

i don't have any of the results anymore send a pm/mail to Tom_ep he will tell you what you need to know and the faction you can find them on Burning Tree (or maybe tom did it)

[Adran]

Worth pointing out that every single model in the Vics starter box is unique. Same for Ophelia and Perdita And almost all the other starter boxs contains 3 of a model.

If you're determined to base this on starter boxes (I can see why it sounds like a good idea, just not sure that it would work, not everyone owns the starter box) then you'll need to make comp rules which will fit every starter box. Which will force the rules to be much more relaxed.

If you want the harsher comp rules, then you'll possible have to relax the starter box rules.

Currently Ophelia and Victoria either can not meet your comp rules or if they can they are forced to be almost exactly 1 list.

This is the hard part of changing rules sets, every change has unexpected consequences. Now you could just say that Ophelia can not take part in your tournement, but I'm fairly sure that gremilin crews weren't the ones you were trying to target in your comp.

The idea is good though, keep looking at it.

[sephiroa]

Worth pointing out that every single model in the Vics starter box is unique. Same for Ophelia and Perdita And almost all the other starter boxs contains 3 of a model.

If you're determined to base this on starter boxes (I can see why it sounds like a good idea, just not sure that it would work, not everyone owns the starter box) then you'll need to make comp rules which will fit every starter box. Which will force the rules to be much more relaxed.

If you want the harsher comp rules, then you'll possible have to relax the starter box rules.

Currently Ophelia and Victoria either can not meet your comp rules or if they can they are forced to be almost exactly 1 list.

This is the hard part of changing rules sets, every change has unexpected consequences. Now you could just say that Ophelia can not take part in your tournement, but I'm fairly sure that gremilin crews weren't the ones you were trying to target in your comp.

The idea is good though, keep looking at it.

hmm,, didn't think about that one,,

and why can victoria not compete? the last game you don't need the startboxes anymore, that's only game 1 and 2

forth game:

20ss list (i want comments in this)

this is after the big battle, your master has suffered some injuries and his/her armie has got some beating and you want to finish this last encounter, it ends here

no more than 2 of the same minions (this so spamming is not an option and yes even hamelin has to do this), maximum 1 unique (perdita and ophelia crews maximum of 2), maximum 1 rare, totems are allowed and do not count towards the maximum unique.

shared slaughter, chose schemes

this better? 2 unique minions is something they can manage.

Edited September 15, 2011 by sephiroa

[poulpox]

I like the concept of story which I think fits Malifaux perfectly.

Another idea which I think goes very well with story games is that instead of fliping for strats, players obtain a strat according to their previous game, which allows for more fluff (ie if you lost the previous game the consequences show in the next strategy, etc...)

Good luck!

[sephiroa]

I like the concept of story which I think fits Malifaux perfectly.

Another idea which I think goes very well with story games is that instead of fliping for strats, players obtain a strat according to their previous game, which allows for more fluff (ie if you lost the previous game the consequences show in the next strategy, etc...)

Good luck!

jep, that's something I'm thinkin about as well, but first i want to look for the right Crew selecting rules and maybe i Can combine them,

if you failed to get vp from your strategy in game 1, in game 2 you can take only 1 rare choice,

if you failed to get vp from your strategy in game 2, in game 3 you can take only take 2 minions above 7ss cost (could change this to 1 above 10ss or so)

if you failed to get vp from your strategy in game 3, in game 4 your opponent choses 1 scheme for you (rules of unique schemes are still here)

something like this,

[Adran]

I I mis-read the unique and rare limits as applying to the whole tournement, rather than just Game 4. ok, its less of an issue for just the 20 point game.

Without checking every single crew, and starter boxes I can't tell you all the possible problems, but Perdita has access to the full range of Guild minions at all times so probably fine.

Lets Check Ophelia, as the one which looks likely to have a problem

Ophelia

Young Lacroux - max 4 pts worth

Bayou Goblins - Max 4 pts

Unique Kin. 10- 12pt, depending on which kin you pick.

Slop Hauler - max 8 points

Taxidermist -6points.

Pigapult - Max 8 point

Hog whisperer - Max 10 point

Well you can get a 20 point list using your restrictions, but I would rule out pigapults, the taxidermist and hog whisperers.

Leaving 2 kin, slop hauler and some cheap gremlins is pretty much every single list.

I imagine Molly and Collodi will have similar problems.

Edit

I've written a small 3 game choose your own adventure which I'm hoping to run as a tournement, when I get the bugs ironed out and a date set, so already have limited stratergy choice each turn, was thinkign about enforcing schemes on some as well, but was worried that it would make the later games to much of an advantage for the winners against a loser. I guess if its set up swiss style this is less of a problem.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Adran

[sephiroa]

I I mis-read the unique and rare limits as applying to the whole tournement, rather than just Game 4. ok, its less of an issue for just the 20 point game.

Without checking every single crew, and starter boxes I can't tell you all the possible problems, but Perdita has access to the full range of Guild minions at all times so probably fine.

Lets Check Ophelia, as the one which looks likely to have a problem

Ophelia

Young Lacroux - max 4 pts worth

Bayou Goblins - Max 4 pts

Unique Kin. 10- 12pt, depending on which kin you pick.

Slop Hauler - max 8 points

Taxidermist -6points.

Pigapult - Max 8 point

Hog whisperer - Max 10 point

Well you can get a 20 point list using your restrictions, but I would rule out pigapults, the taxidermist and hog whisperers.

Leaving 2 kin, slop hauler and some cheap gremlins is pretty much every single list.

I imagine Molly and Collodi will have similar problems.

Edit

I've written a small 3 game choose your own adventure which I'm hoping to run as a tournement, when I get the bugs ironed out and a date set, so already have limited stratergy choice each turn, was thinkign about enforcing schemes on some as well, but was worried that it would make the later games to much of an advantage for the winners against a loser. I guess if its set up swiss style this is less of a problem.

those are hecnmans,, hmm, collidi i can see a problem, since he realy needs his 3+ marionettes and some wicked dolls

ophelia has alot of uniques

and molly,, i don't see any problems with molly though,

maybe hencmans can use max of 3 of the same minions.

ophelia take max of 2 unique. but that's about it i think

[sephiroa]

so this is what we have right now

first game:

25ss list, at least 15 ss has to be from the starterbox

see this game as a patrol, or small quest you have to do, flipping for strategies individually from core strategies

if you failed to get any vp from your strategy in game 1, in game 2 you can take only 1 rare minion.

second game:

30ss list, after the last patrol/ small mission, you are send on a bigger mission here only at least 8ss has to be from the starterbox

flip for strategies on the individual encounter chart

if you failed to get any vp from your strategy in game 2, in game 3 you can take only take 2 minions above 7ss cost

thirth game:

35ss list, now, you are at war, and you go all out against your opponont, 35ss list how you want it, flip on the shared encounter chart (when shared slaughter reflip)

if you failed to get any vp from your strategy in game 3, in game 4 your opponent choses 1 scheme for you (rules of unique schemes are still here)

forth game:

20ss list

this is after the big battle, your master has suffered some injuries and his/her army has got some beating and you want to finish this last encounter, it ends here

no more than 2 of the same minions (hencmans max of 3 of the same minions), maximum 1 unique (ophelia can choose up to 2 unique kin models), maximum 1 rare, totems can be used without limitations.

shared slaughter, chose schemes

i think this will do, the only thing I may want to change is the last thing if you failed to get any vp from your strategy in game 3, in game 4 your opponent choses 1 scheme for you (rules of unique schemes are still here) when you are playing against outcast, you can pick one of the impossible schemes for them, and i still want a fair game, but i don't have any limitations,,

maybe i could say: if you failed to get any vp from your strategy in game 3, in game 4 you cannot use any totems (but you can summon them if able) this to make sure that even levi can have his waifs. its something small, but some master need there totems sometimes