Pine Box

[Stonedog-7]

So with 1 regular and 1 semi-regular Lady J opponent a question came up the other day that i didn't have any answer for as an opponent

- What good uses are there for Pine Box?

In particular as i've been playing Kirai i couldn't come up with solid uses as the ruling that Ikiryo got about being able to summon it back even though it's been boxed

So Guild players... astound me, what good solid uses are there for this ability or is it incredibly situational?

[GamerGaeth]

Carrying the Executioner across the field, for one.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Really burying your own models is its best use and using marshal as a delivery system.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Really burying your own models is its best use and using marshal as a delivery system.

I'd say when a spell gets to the point where most people only view it as useful in a way that completely counters its design intentions (and its fluff), it's time to take a look at correcting it.

[JayBarlekamp]

it needs a range greater than 1 to be of any use other than to transport your own models. If it had a range of 6" it would be more feasible to use it offensively.

I had no deisre to play LJ in her original form so I never paid much attention to the DM. However when I got the dead justice box and started to look at the cards I was very surprised to find that pine box had only 1" range. Pretty much means that I can carry my own models, or ignore the ability all together (which is what I've been doing). Especially as a (2) action, it is rather lackluster.

Edited September 2, 2011 by JayBarlekamp

[nilus]

Its 1" range kills it. Its very situational. I don't think it needs be changed at all honestly since Death Marshals are such a solid model for there points anyways. Its really just a little thematic bonus.

Maybe one day we will get a Death Marshal unit that changes the effect of the Pine box. Either extends it range or makes it a 1 action. That would be cool.

[TheOneWhoFell]

I find pine box to be useful when the DMs are in melee combat. They aren't that good at close range... I mean... they aren't AWFUL, but they aren't great. So when I don't want them to kick it I tend to pine box stuff... I especially love when people move stuff into the 1" range before the DM activates... makes me giggle even.

Pine Box is situational. It's not very good against models with high Wp... but it can be an effective deterrent against models getting too close (you have NO idea how many times I Pine Boxed Bette before she stopped getting close to my DMs...)

[Vlad the Mad]

Pine boxing a Wp 1 aSeamus... priceless. You do have to survive until then of course...

Anyway, in general I agree that it's best used for your own models, as it's too situational to be effective as an offensive spell.

[knoerzer]

I had no idea you could Pine Box your own characters! I can't wait to try this tonight! Thank you guys!

[mpangelu]

Just remember death marshalls have intractable and cannot be buried or sacrificed.

Also ... pine boxing lady j or executioner and the. use lucious to sling shot them out of deoyment zone. This is especially great of you do sword str first as when she is buried she retaons effects and buffs and the like .

[mpangelu]

Just remember death marshalls have intractable and cannot be buried or sacrificed.

Also ... pine boxing lady j or executioner and the. use lucious to sling shot them out of deoyment zone. This is especially great of you do sword str first as when she is buried she retaons effects and buffs and the like .

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I'd say when a spell gets to the point where most people only view it as useful in a way that completely counters its design intentions (and its fluff), it's time to take a look at correcting it.

I see your point but many things in this game can be used outside of intentions, but are there for fluff. I like this about this game. This ability with executioner and Perdita obeying it up makes it sick. Double charge and drop, that safely gets the executioner out 15" with 2" melee.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I see your point but many things in this game can be used outside of intentions, but are there for fluff. I like this about this game. This ability with executioner and Perdita obeying it up makes it sick. Double charge and drop, that safely gets the executioner out 15" with 2" melee.

And you'll find a lot of people here who feel like Obey is a power that just doesn't fit with Perdita, and would have preferred something a little more Family oriented.

Also, I'm not saying that powers can't have extra uses, but those extra uses shouldn't overshadow the intended use by the wide margin that Pine Box does. That shows an ill-thought out design.

[G&TBoy]

Back at the dawn of the malifaux world...way way back I used to play resurrectionists in particular Dr M. I played him him for many months with various undead minions and faced Lady J and Death Marshals quite frequently and in all that time no one ever tried putting any of my models in the pinebox... I've just had to read up on it to see what it does?

[011121]

this doesn't exactly negate the "situational" complaint but I believe pine box could be used against the dreamer to some extent. Specifically in the "you've already gone and brought out LCB (and used your three actions) now I'd like to put LCB away and shoot that squishy little kid." The power doesn't specify non-master.

For that matter why can't you use it to take out of play any big beatstick with a not so great willpower? Plus the possibility of messing with cycles for models like Leveticus/hollow waifs where being buried doesn't trigger the next step of the cycle. And burying buffers like Ophelia

I understand the point that it's a (2) action with short range meaning you pretty much have to start your turn within 1" of the target but with a longer range it might be overpowered.

[G&TBoy]

In theory no reason to not target a big nasty and try and get rid of it/imprison it, but its such a short-range ability plus the thought of said "big Nasty" beating you at the next turn wp check and venting his fury on your poor marshal may make some think twice and just go for keeping there distance and doing what marshals do best...shoot,

[Bucket Monkey]

Well there's always Avatar Justices aetheric shackles which is in effect a longer ranged pine box. I'd love an ability to throw the coffin like in the fluff, again like most I've tried it once I think on an enemy model, most of the time its protecting LJ, Judge or the Executioner if I'm not using the Lucius slingshot, I think if they're that close your not getting the most out of your peacebringer, the blade is nice but ranged is better.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

And you'll find a lot of people here who feel like Obey is a power that just doesn't fit with Perdita, and would have preferred something a little more Family oriented.

Also, I'm not saying that powers can't have extra uses, but those extra uses shouldn't overshadow the intended use by the wide margin that Pine Box does. That shows an ill-thought out design.

fair point I do think obey is weird on Perdita at least limit it to target family only to make themed.

[G&TBoy]

I think Perdita's obey is fine, she needs the Mask suit and I always thought of it as the enemy doing what the pretty lady says.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I don't think I have ever used it on enemy with Perdita I usually use it for movement shennigans or damage attacks. Much like the movement shennigans you can use to delivery our best melee beat stick the executioner. Since we have the highest damage output I always target a friendly for that.

Back to op I don't use bury feature on friendly unless I have obeys to move it. Marshal is too slow to deliver without obeys.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Jonas Albrecht]

I don't think I have ever used it on enemy with Perdita I usually use it for movement shennigans or damage attacks. Much like the movement shennigans you can use to delivery our best melee beat stick the executioner. Since we have the highest damage output I always target a friendly for that.

Back to op I don't use bury feature on friendly unless I have obeys to move it. Marshal is too slow to deliver without obeys.

It's already notoriously hard to cast with it's requirement, making it Rg 4, and a (0) action would go a long way toward making it useful. And really, would many of you object to Death Marshals going to 5 points?

[Q'iq'el]

fair point I do think obey is weird on Perdita at least limit it to target family only to make themed.

She's a young woman who leads a largely patriarchal clan. She's not a mere human, but someone with affinity to Malifaux magic, and as the Book 2 and 3 suggest, someone who can empathize with and exercise her will even on the native beings of the world, not only humans.

Can it be, that she was able to take the leadership of the clan precisely because she her will is strong beyond human measure? That it isn't merely a internal family thing, but the family thing is the result of her own powers?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Can it be' date=' that she was able to take the leadership of the clan precisely because she her will is strong beyond human measure? That it isn't merely a internal family thing, but the family thing is the result of her own powers?[/quote']

You can speculate it, but you have to ignore a lot of what's been written, and frankly, ruin one of the more interesting character moments, where Francisco chooses to step aside and let his sister lead. Honestly, the attempts to retcon her character are a bit baffling to me.

And book 2 makes zero mention of empathic powers. What it does demonstrate is Perdita's ability to connect to seperate points in space with a straight, unimpeded line.

Post even Book 3 is when she gets the ability to sense emotions.

[Q'iq'el]

She does sense Gremlins and her own Family in Book 2. Granted, those are in-combat situations where she anticipates shots and movements she doesn't see, but I think it does count as sensing intentions.

As for Francisco moment, I have nothing to say except for that it hangs on how you think about magic and supernatural in Malifaux. I'm tempted to say that the fact Francisco thinks he is giving her leadership of his own will may very well be the sign how strong is Perdita's ability. She doesn't strong-arm and coerce others to serving her, she counts on their loyalty and honor and higher emotions. Just making them remember about these things in the heat of battle is something, isn't it?

I'm trying to say, obey as an ability doesn't necessary have to represent a manipulative influence or a direct assault of will. Her ways may be different and still achieve the same goal - she's perceived as authority and listened too.

[Jonas Albrecht]

As for Francisco moment, I have nothing to say except for that it hangs on how you think about magic and supernatural in Malifaux. I'm tempted to say that the fact Francisco thinks he is giving her leadership of his own will may very well be the sign how strong is Perdita's ability. She doesn't strong-arm and coerce others to serving her, she counts on their loyalty and honor and higher emotions. Just making them remember about these things in the heat of battle is something, isn't it?

It's just unnecessary. We see why Perdita leads. In addition to being an unmatched pistolera, she's a fantastic strategist. Having to tack on a layer of magic beyond that is just damaging to the story.