Zoraida and 2 Special Forces

[Fading Memory]

This debate has come up a few times in other threads, but I don't believe it has been its own topic.

Under the rules for hiring models, it says, "The following restrictions apply when hiring Crews." (p71) and then later on says only one special forces may be selected and only two models of that special force may be hired unless a henchman of that special force is hired.

It says nothing about being able to summon Special Forces. Zoraida is able to summon Wicked Dolls. So the question is if Zoraida hires let's say Rami (Sp Kin), can she summon Wicked Dolls once the game starts?

The rule of one special force is unclear when talking about summoning as the rules seem to fall under hiring only; where as, something like Rare clearly stats how many of that model you can have in play at any given time.

[Fading Memory]

Stop making this post come up. Book 3 was supposedly to be all about Special Forces. As it was not, that means Book 4 could be. There are actually quit a few masters who have potential to get 2 Special Forces by summoning, Zoraida, aZoraida, aRamos, McMourning, Nicodem. They said they are working on it. They are going to be making more Special Forces models and are seriously considering the implications this ruling has on the game. I am glad they are taking their time. We will get the news when they have come to a conclusion.

[CannonFodder]

I originally asked this question about 2 months ago in a different thread. How long does it take to make a ruling. I'm not the only one asking this, I know 2 people in my LGS looking to know this ruling. I see other also asking, not just here but in other threads. They also said they would answer in a 'couple days'. First everyone said wait until they get the gencon orders done, then it was give them time to discuss it internally. Now if they forgot, I can understand which is why I bump it. We've been patient, hoping that we'll forget about the question is not valid strategy in my book.

unfortunately there is no discrete way of asking for a follow up on a public forum. Doing a bump in the only official ruling spot is the only option I have other than forgetting which I don't want to do.

The internet open for discussion and you are welcome to post your option where you want, just don't expect it to make me stop mine.

[FearLord]

unfortunately there is no discrete way of asking for a follow up on a public forum. Doing a bump in the only official ruling spot is the only option I have other than forgetting which I don't want to do.

If only there was some kind of "private messaging" function... We could call it "PMing" for short... That would be sweet...

[Fading Memory]

unfortunately there is no discrete way of asking for a follow up on a public forum. Doing a bump in the only official ruling spot is the only option I have other than forgetting which I don't want to do.

.

You do have a point. It's just when I see it at the top I get all excited. :dance:

[Dolomyte]

Keep on bumping it till they answer it.

[Ciaran]

My experience with this sort of thing taking this long after a RM saying it would looked at is that they're looking at some things down the road, and hot a ruling will fit in to newer models, rules, etc...

As for now: I suggest playing it RAW. You can only ever have one SF group in your crew, ever. (Which is what I'll be doing in local tournaments, etc...)

[CannonFodder]

My experience with this sort of thing taking this long after a RM saying it would looked at is that they're looking at some things down the road, and hot a ruling will fit in to newer models, rules, etc...

As for now: I suggest playing it RAW. You can only ever have one SF group in your crew, ever. (Which is what I'll be doing in local tournaments, etc...)

For me its holding up my next few purchases. I don't want to pick up models I'm not going to be able to play later.

[mpangelu]

On a slightly different topic how is that regular FAQ campaign going? Something that is driving my friends away from the game is the nit picking of little words and how stuff like Papa Loco can kill himself since there is a chance he may not cast his go boom spell and blah blah, and the way the RM goes but then wait something has changed and now we have to search through 7 pages of a forum thread for a official ruling on something. I love Malifaux, and I don't care if we house rule things or whatever we do, its upsetting to me that my friends are getting so upset by this they are being driven away from it leaving me no one to play with.

[FearLord]

Something that is driving my friends away from the game is the nit picking of little words and how stuff like Papa Loco can kill himself since there is a chance he may not cast his go boom spell and blah blah, and the way the RM goes but then wait something has changed and now we have to search through 7 pages of a forum thread for a official ruling on something.

No ruling needed for Papa Loco - the rules manual is very clear - a model can inflict Dg on it self if it would kill it, but it cannot use an ability that inflicts Wds if that ability would kill itself. Papa Loco's spell inflicts Dg, not Wds, so there's no problem using it if he might kill himself - nothing to do with whether or not he'll cast it or not...

[CannonFodder]

On a slightly different topic how is that regular FAQ campaign going? Something that is driving my friends away from the game is the nit picking of little words and how stuff like Papa Loco can kill himself since there is a chance he may not cast his go boom spell and blah blah, and the way the RM goes but then wait something has changed and now we have to search through 7 pages of a forum thread for a official ruling on something. I love Malifaux, and I don't care if we house rule things or whatever we do, its upsetting to me that my friends are getting so upset by this they are being driven away from it leaving me no one to play with.

I think your the only one who modified their signature. There is a Wiki out now but its user driven, still nothing official from Wyrd.

[Dolomyte]

and finally.

[Fading Memory]

Is there are ruling I'm not aware of?

[Dolomyte]

Is there are ruling I'm not aware of?

No, I was just bumping three threads at once

[Obscure_Ref]

Bump, cause this is a good question and a answer would help settle some local debates. :grouphug:

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Local debate you know I'm right.... Tease

I don't even have a stance on this.

[CannonFodder]

We just had our minis night at our LGS and with the release of Molly and Kaeris box set this just become a bigger discussion.

I play Zoraida and want Gunsmiths and summon Wicked dolls.

A friend wants McM to summon Rougue necromancies while having 2 crooligans without Molly.

PS: I'm glad I'm not the only one bumping this up.

[Issalbotproto]

I'v got the Mcmouring issue going, my lgs has concluded you can only make the RN after a crooligan has been killed or sacrificed. But I want something official soon >.>

[Ciaran]

We just had our minis night at our LGS and with the release of Molly and Kaeris box set this just become a bigger discussion.

I play Zoraida and want Gunsmiths and summon Wicked dolls.

A friend wants McM to summon Rougue necromancies while having 2 crooligans without Molly.

PS: I'm glad I'm not the only one bumping this up.

In order: No, you cannot hire Gunsmiths than summon Wicked Dolls. Your crew cannot contain SF models from two separate SF groups (pg 10 of the RM).

Yes, your friend CAN summon a Rogue Necromancy while having two Crooligans in play. The restriction on page 72 of the RM applies to hiring, as pointed out on pg 71 of the RM.

There's no need for a ruling on this unless something is being changed. It's spelled out very clearly as is.

[Ciaran]

I'v got the Mcmouring issue going, my lgs has concluded you can only make the RN after a crooligan has been killed or sacrificed. But I want something official soon >.>

That is incorrect with Rules as Written.

The two count restriction right now applies to Hiring only. It doesn't say contain (like Rare # does).

[CannonFodder]

In order: No, you cannot hire Gunsmiths than summon Wicked Dolls. Your crew cannot contain SF models from two separate SF groups (pg 10 of the RM).

Yes, your friend CAN summon a Rogue Necromancy while having two Crooligans in play. The restriction on page 72 of the RM applies to hiring, as pointed out on pg 71 of the RM.

There's no need for a ruling on this unless something is being changed. It's spelled out very clearly as is.

This has been argues back and forth a lot, and all the restriction primarily discuss hiring restrictions. with virtually no reference to Summoning. which i why people want an official ruling which was promised over a month ago.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Be fair CannonFodder, Wyrd said they were looking into it and discussing it a month ago but they did not promise that their ruling would come a month ago.

[CannonFodder]

They said they would discuss internally and get back to everyone in a couple days.

The first time this was raised was the week of Gencon. I was patient because they had a back log from a huge orders, After 3 weeks. still nothing. I asked again, I got the response saying we'll discuss internally. Everyone presumes the rules for the book 4 (special forces) are impacted by this decisions so expected to wait. At this point my view is they are avoiding the question and expecting it to disappear. I pretty much dropped the question, but other are still pumping it, so I'm not alone. I know the regulars in my LGS are waiting for this. I saw a couple discussion in the Neverborn area, and new ones in the Resurrection area today. So the confusion is not just me. and currently most people are assuming you are restricted, but the clarity is not there.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

They said they would discuss internally and get back to everyone in a couple days.

The first time this was raised was the week of Gencon. I was patient because they had a back log from a huge orders, After 3 weeks. still nothing. I asked again, I got the response saying we'll discuss internally. Everyone presumes the rules for the book 4 (special forces) are impacted by this decisions so expected to wait. At this point my view is they are avoiding the question and expecting it to disappear. I pretty much dropped the question, but other are still pumping it, so I'm not alone. I know the regulars in my LGS are waiting for this. I saw a couple discussion in the Neverborn area, and new ones in the Resurrection area today. So the confusion is not just me. and currently most people are assuming you are restricted, but the clarity is not there.

This is absurd they are expecting it to disappear? What is your intent, because we have all seen that they have taken long to address many issues before that they felt were going to be a big game changer such as this decision.

Take a break, you are not a crusader you are just plain being childish in this. It is fine to bump but keep it reasonable. Don't make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims.

I understand the want and need for an faq, but you can work with your local lgs for a solution. Maybe a pair of you become the expert that everyone relies on. I can understand this gets far more complicated if you go to many lgs like me or if you play competitively. Keep in mind most of all this is a living game and change takes time.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Ciaran]

This has been argues back and forth a lot, and all the restriction primarily discuss hiring restrictions. with virtually no reference to Summoning. which i why people want an official ruling which was promised over a month ago.

Page 10 of the RM states "A Crew cannot contain models from more than one Special Forces group." Contain. Not hire. The hiring restrictions are just that, hiring.

It's not Rare which also states the Crew cannot contain. Contain, not Hire. It's spelled out clearly. You have the rules as written.

[mpangelu]

bump