Fog Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Just remember, the plural of anecdote isn't evidence. Just because some people have success with Marcus, doesn't make him not... well, Marcus. Colette would be a Tier 1 Master. Rasputina would likely be Tier 2, and Ramos Tier 3. Marcus is Tier Marcus. So what would the tiers be then? There are a lot of people who bicker about where certain figures (like the Viks) place and I'm curious if there is a list somewhere of the generally accepted tiering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I'm curious if there is a list somewhere of the generally accepted tiering. That'll be the thread to start when you want the biggest board flamewar to date. And the Viks are solidly Tier 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 That'll be the thread to start when you want the biggest board flamewar to date. And the Viks are solidly Tier 3. I thought the viks were the outcast master everyone won with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 That'll be the thread to start when you want the biggest board flamewar to date. And the Viks are solidly Tier 3. And yet I hear people praise them like they're the second coming. Honestly, I'm only really curious so when some of my local players complain about my teams I could point them to a post and go "See, I AM playing down." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I thought the viks were the outcast master everyone won with. I think that would be Hamelin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I want to call BS on this so bad, but your reputation proceeds you. ukrocky is not lying lol....he was unlucky to get drawn against 3 Colette players in that many games over the weekend!.. He is a very good player too (currently ranked number 1 in the UK, and he just about beat my Colette crew!..) Just remember this game is about strategy's and schemes not about killing models...Marcus can be very good at what the game is about, esp with the right Beasts in his crew.. Oh and Marcus in melee is actually quite good, no Lady J to be fair but more than respectable with Shellaigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 every system needs a "ogre kingdom" armyHeh. I guess I just like using the chaff. I never thought Ogres, Orcs or Beasts of Chaos were that bad back in 7th edition WFB, placing in the top 6 of 5 tournaments with these 3, all tournies were well attended events with good players at them. I'll admit Marcus isn't a 'bent' master, but I also don't think he's anywhere near as bad as people make out, nor did I think ogres were! he was unlucky to get drawn against 3 Colette players in that many games over the weekend!3 in a row might I add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharaoh Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I have to say, Ramos was my first master, and he's still a favourite. Sure he's a bit slow, but with spiders, a steamborg, the duet, you can get the speed you need to reach your objectives, and in my opinion, he's still very good. For me the big disadvantage is that the electrical creation is unique only, that would definitely shift him up a gear as far as power level is concerned. From the sounds of it, his avatar and some of the new M&SU assets will make a lot of difference. That said I don't really play in the sort of WAAC tournament environment you seem to be describing, so perhaps he really is rubbish when all people want to do is crush you with all their might, rather than a more story based, relaxed style of play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Just remember, the plural of anecdote isn't evidence. Just because some people have success with Marcus, doesn't make him not... well, Marcus. Colette would be a Tier 1 Master. Rasputina would likely be Tier 2, and Ramos Tier 3. Marcus is Tier Marcus. Your tiers are off. Arcanist tier: Colette Everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Your tiers are off. Arcanist tier: Colette Everyone else You're going to have real trouble convincing me that everyone else is on the same tier as Marcus. I actually kind of like Rasputina and Ramos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Colette Raspy Marcus Ramos. I used gaps to illustrate the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I think Ramos deserves to be higher than that! Without the Mobile Toolkit, fair enough, but with it he becomes a lot more efficient at what he does...I quite like him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) You're going to have real trouble convincing me that everyone else is on the same tier as Marcus. I actually kind of like Rasputina and Ramos. Maybe you could play marcus? That usually works. Also, with aRamos you now have two of the easiest schemes in the game (sabotage and do i have to do it all myself). Edited August 26, 2011 by jdomin2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Maybe you could play marcus? That usually works. Also, with aRamos you now have two of the easiest schemes in the game (sabotage and do i have to do it all myself). I dont even know how to reply to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Ramos is going to jump up through tiers with his avatar. It's really good and covers all of his weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Ramos is going to jump up through tiers with his avatar. It's really good and covers all of his weaknesses. I dont have the book, I figured if I waited to place my order till I got paid it would probably make it to my LGS first. Good to know though. cause he had a $$$$$$$$ ton of weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Maybe you could play marcus? That usually works. Nah, I prefer not to waste my time and money on a failed cause. Book 3 helped Marcus, but not enough to bring him out of Tier Marcus. Ramos is going to jump up through tiers with his avatar. It's really good and covers all of his weaknesses. Absolutely agreed, although it's a bit of a pain to pull off. Still nice, though, and it and the Large Steampunk Arachnid should do wonders for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Absolutely agreed, although it's a bit of a pain to pull off. Still nice, though, and it and the Large Steampunk Arachnid should do wonders for him. 2 summons and 8 EF wounds seems pretty easy to me though, plus he'll adore Arcane Effigy for the extra cast and card. Even if you only complete one of the criteria and transform for (2) on turn 3, he'd still be able to leap then melee, or use Inno Design and melee, or whatever. I've never played Ramos so I might be wrong - obviously his tomes requirements are a pain without Mobile Toolkit - so this is obviously pure theoryfaux. Either way Im looking forward to running him (and Steambord Executioner which always seems to me to get far too bad a rap for how much dmg it can do). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 2 summons and 8 EF wounds seems pretty easy to me though, plus he'll adore Arcane Effigy for the extra cast and card. Even if you only complete one of the criteria and transform for (2) on turn 3, he'd still be able to leap then melee, or use Inno Design and melee, or whatever. I've never played Ramos so I might be wrong - obviously his tomes requirements are a pain without Mobile Toolkit - so this is obviously pure theoryfaux. Either way Im looking forward to running him (and Steambord Executioner which always seems to me to get far too bad a rap for how much dmg it can do). Yeah, the problem I'm seeing is that you really need the Toolkit to be summoning much, and those summons (and Ramos' lack of speed) means he will have potential trouble getting electrical fire off to do that much damage that early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Nah, I prefer not to waste my time and money on a failed cause. Book 3 helped Marcus, but not enough to bring him out of Tier Marcus. If you have no expierence with him then you can't be.that good of a judge of how he plays then right? Honestly when he has access to models, he does great across many strategies and master matchups. But again you would have to pkay him to know that. Hinestly i feel he sits close to zoraida if only he had those great neverborn minions like her, hed be above her. He struggkes in fixed point tournaments cuz his advantage is versatility in list creation. And why wouldnt avatar ramos not be able to kill an enemy model with electrical fire before.manifest then his melee weapon is still clockwork fist so his avatar wilk have no prob punching something to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 If you have no expierence with him then you can't be.that good of a judge of how he plays then right? Honestly when he has access to models, he does great across many strategies and master matchups. But again you would have to pkay him to know that. There are two schools of thought to this. One school says that in order to understand how something works, you have to experience it directly. The other side believes that rational thought and the application thereof allows humans to figure things out beyond what they directly experience. I do not need to own (and play!) every model in every game in order to understand how each one works, just as I do not need to burn myself to understand that exothermic reactions can cause pain. And why wouldnt avatar ramos not be able to kill an enemy model with electrical fire before.manifest then his melee weapon is still clockwork fist so his avatar wilk have no prob punching something to death. Several reasons. Firstly, the odds of actually killing something with Electrical Fire aren't all that great since, let's face it, Ramos really wants to be on the back line before he manifests. Then, you're still better off using the Spider legs as opposed to the mechanical arm, and his scheme remains inferior to things like Bodyguard anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRC Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 There are two schools of thought to this. One school says that in order to understand how something works, you have to experience it directly. The other side believes that rational thought and the application thereof allows humans to figure things out beyond what they directly experience. True, however people are often wrong. Actually playing the force personally helps dispel myths and forces people to face their incorrect assumptions. A sufficiently intelligent person can deduce the true power of a force just by theorycraft. I don't think we have anyone here that qualifies, so we need to rely on experience and evidence to bulk it out. The only question is: how much experience and evidence do you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 true, however people are often wrong. Actually playing the force personally helps dispel myths and forces people to face their incorrect assumptions. A sufficiently intelligent person can deduce the true power of a force just by theorycraft. I don't think we have anyone here that qualifies, so we need to rely on experience and evidence to bulk it out. The only question is: How much experience and evidence do you need? there is nevar enough, nevar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Ramos isn't bad at all if you don't mind proxying models. Kaeris, gunsmiths, and even a miner greatly improve him. Granted I give you outside of Joss his book 1 stuff is crap. But alot of the book 2 stuff will greatly help him out once it gets released (heh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 2 summons and 8 EF wounds seems pretty easy to me though, plus he'll adore Arcane Effigy for the extra cast and card. Even if you only complete one of the criteria and transform for (2) on turn 3, he'd still be able to leap then melee, or use Inno Design and melee, or whatever. I've never played Ramos so I might be wrong - obviously his tomes requirements are a pain without Mobile Toolkit - so this is obviously pure theoryfaux. Either way Im looking forward to running him (and Steambord Executioner which always seems to me to get far too bad a rap for how much dmg it can do). The problem with the effigy is simply put if you take him you cannot take anything special forces related with him of the msu variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.