Question on Triggers

[mpangelu]

.. This mainly came up when playing against my friend.

He is using the dreamer, and was casting a spell. Does the spell actually have to go off for him to get "All My Friends"? Or can he just cast it, it have the 2 mask, and even if it doesn't go off, the trigger requirement is met, therefore the trigger goes off? I have scrounged the RM for something more specific on this and can't find anything..

[Jonas Albrecht]

Since it seems to augment the effect of the spell upon successfully being cast, I would say the spell must go off to produce the trigger.

[mpangelu]

It doesn't do anything for the spell?.... Here is a better breakdown of what I mean now that I have the book in front of me.

Lets say the Dreamer tries to cast

(1) Frightening Dream (CC:10(mask) / Rst: - / Rg: C) Place one friendly buried Nightmare within 6" of this model.

Triggers

CA((Mask)(Mask)) All My Friends[Nightmare]: This Model's Controller may place any number of friendly buried Nightmares within 6" of this model.

So Dreamer has a Ca of 7(mask).

Lets suppose he ends up casting it with a total of 9(mask)(mask) (his ca + 2(mask)). The spell fails to go off, however, he does trigger All My Friends. There is no stipulation in the trigger that the spell has to go off.

I don't think that sounds right, but that is my common sense kicking in. I however can't find anything in the rulebook/rule manual that says it doesn't. The only requirement for triggers is that the correct suits are matched....

[Q'iq'el]

Actually the relevant rule is on page 54 and it seems you don't have to be successful at casting a spell, to get the Trigger off.

Wording in the Apply Spell Effects section:

"Regardless of whether the spell was cast successfully and/or resisted, any additional effects, such as Triggers, are applied as indicated in their descriptions."

[Ropetus]

Updated wording:

CA((Mask)(Mask)) All My Friends[Frightening Dream]: After successfully casting this Spell, this Model's Controller may place any number of friendly buried Nightmares within 6" of this model.

Problem solved.

-Ropetus

[mpangelu]

Where is the updated wording found?

[Q'iq'el]

Where is the updated wording found?

Above.

Ropetus is a Marshal (see the star) - if he posts a ruling, that's the rules now.

Worth remembering for the sake of other Triggers though, even if this one has been nuked.

[Hatchethead]

Updated wording:

CA((Mask)(Mask)) All My Friends[Frightening Dream]: After successfully casting this Spell, this Model's Controller may place any number of friendly buried Nightmares within 6" of this model.

Problem solved.

-Ropetus

Oh THANK GOODNESS.

[mpangelu]

Ahh, cool. I wasn't sure but yay! now my friend has to at least waste a 3mask!

[mpangelu]

Does this also mean that the trigger is now only good for that one spell?

[CubertFarnsworth]

:vb_mad2:

We are not starting this again!!!! That is what drove so many people away from Malifaux about a year ago! So how many versions of the rules are we going to have this time!

an errata

an extra errata

the mini rulebook

random rule marshalls ruling

V2 cards

Did I miss anything?

:soapbox:

[Q'iq'el]

Right now it's the Mini Rulebook and the cards. There's really no issue of V2 cards, as long as you updated (what's on the cards is the rule).

There are not that many changes to the v2 rules so far. There's a thread which lists all the differences between actual cards and Book 2. We probably need a sticky thread listing all the rulings, which change actual wording of the rule - that would be a great idea. As forum grows, regular search becomes more and more tedious.

[Hatchethead]

You're right, Cubert. I'd much rather have a development team that doesn't listen to the community, clarify the unclear or fix the broken, except with a nice, tidy bi-annual errata that rarely addresses even half the issues the community has been howling about for six months.

You can't win either way. This is the lesser of two evils. I agree, it's frustrating and often confusing, but I prefer this to the alternative.

That said, I do hope future errata is regularly compiled within a single living document this time around, something we can re-print or (more likely) update on our smartphones each time a major change or clarification is handed down. Put someone in charge - The Keeper of the FAQ - whose job it is to update and upload the PDF and inform the community of the change.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Mentat_Canis]

Really guys it made no sense for this to trigger if the spell didn't go off. It was a mistype by someone its not like this is a big deal its a slight clarification. Just relax and move along. Oh and if you were playing it the other way it was a 2 out of 54 chance and would have made no sense.

[Hatchethead]

No one's upset with the ruling. We've always played it the wrong way anyhow (which turned out to be the right way, so we win!).

[Jonas Albrecht]

Does this also mean that the trigger is now only good for that one spell?

It was only ever for the one spell.

[mpangelu]

It was only ever for the one spell.

Before hand the [] only said [Nightmares] which.. isnt' actually a spell.. so I guess technically before the trigger was never usable?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Before hand the [] only said [Nightmares] which.. isnt' actually a spell.. so I guess technically before the trigger was never usable?

I've always interpreted that as an error regarding the Spell Frightening Dreams.

[mpangelu]

Common sense and logic have no basis in the games of miniatures good sir! It could of just as easily been interpreted that it only effects nightmares and there is no specified spell. If there is no specified spell it works on all cast based spells. Which was how we were playing it actually.

[Ratty]

Updated wording:

CA((Mask)(Mask)) All My Friends[Frightening Dream]: After successfully casting this Spell, this Model's Controller may place any number of friendly buried Nightmares within 6" of this model.

Problem solved.

-Ropetus

Adding this to the Card Update page. Which should be considered the Errata for book2 for the moment.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Common sense and logic have no basis in the games of miniatures good sir! It could of just as easily been interpreted that it only effects nightmares and there is no specified spell. If there is no specified spell it works on all cast based spells. Which was how we were playing it actually.

I have never seen a Trigger for anything that is [Keyed] off a Subtype.

[Mike3838]

"Nightmares" has been errata'ed a LONG time ago to say that it should read "Frightening Dreams". The name of the spell was changed during development and they forgot to change the name in the Trigger.

Simples.

Mike

[Jonas Albrecht]

"Nightmares" has been errata'ed a LONG time ago to say that it should read "Frightening Dreams". The name of the spell was changed during development and they forgot to change the name in the Trigger.

Simples.

Mike

KaCHOW!

[mpangelu]

I have never seen a Trigger for anything that is [Keyed] off a Subtype.

Nor have I, but again my friend and I were highly confused when we were first playing this and he was using Dreamer.