Avatar Lilith

[Q'iq'el]

If I understood Eric's interview on Aethervox properly, the Avatars are not meant to be equal. Some are harder to summon than the others, for the balance reasons. Seeing how Lilith has always been near the top as far as the master toughness goes, it's logical her master won't be all that easy to manifest.

[psychocamel]

If I remember rightly then on turn 3 you can spend two action points to change if you've met one of the requirements.

Which would make it:

Turn 1 - cast forest

Turn 2 - cast forest

Turn 3 - AVATARRRR RARRGLBLARGLEBLARR

Whether you can do anything turn 3 or not I dunno (does it count as summoned? Does it get left over action points from normal Lilith?)

[Extinction Angel]

I'm waaay to tired to remember her requirements exactly so I won't post in case I'm just plain wrong.

Turn 2 is the soonest you can bring an Avatar out. And when you do bring out your Avatar it counts as summoned HOWEVER they don't get slow. The avatar gets any leftover General AP and can use any of it's free action abilities, for instance Avatar Zoraida has Casting Expert so she can avatar up and pins and needles twice.

One rule I'm not 100% about is whether or not a master using something like Fast (lilith) then going Avatar, if her Avatar can still use Fast. Pretty sure the answer is no. The Avatars work very similar to how Chompy and the Dreamer work, except it's a one way street. Once the Avatar is out, it's out for good.

[psychocamel]

Hmm, I wonder if you can choose use her 'fast action' first so it's not wasted.

[Mastershake]

you do both, you pay 2 Soulstones to attach the avatar during the hiring process as well as having to pull off the manifestation requirements in game.

Well you don't "have" to pull off the requirements. Even if you do neither they come out eventually, it just makes them appear faster. Casting Illusionary forest twice is pretty standard for Lilith, but wounding things in a forest less so. Doesn't seem like she'll be appearing on the board on turn 2, probably 3-4.

That being said, when she appears it's pretty likley you'll have 4 3" forests (one for illusionary and 3 for going avatar), and making additional forests seems simple enough since she has drain blood and gets counters when things die in forests nearby. Wouldn't be out of the question for a game to end with 6-7 3" forests dotted around the board.

All told aLilith looks pretty fun, and I'll definitely be getting the model along with the alternate sculpt.

[DeleteAccount]

Well you don't "have" to pull off the requirements. Even if you do neither they come out eventually, it just makes them appear faster.

Not according to this

http://twitpic.com/61ejem

You at least need one requirement, after you get it you can decide when to hulk out (though turn 6 is automatic unless you blow a soulstone).

[Sliver Chocobo]

Hmm, I wonder if you can choose use her 'fast action' first so it's not wasted.

I think so, sort of like the way you can use up melee expert

[Soseito]

She reminds me of a big angry blood sucking dryad. I love it.

Sad thing is, my girlfriend runs lilith. I'm gonna get tree buggered.

[Adran]

No book, but from what I've seen the following should be correct

the fast is a general action point. The Avatar continues the activation with any remaining general action points. I don't think there is ever a need to state you are using the fast action point as it is no different from the otehr two the model has.

Obviously if you've manifested usign an all action then you have n o action points left, but if you used a 2 action then you could either have done a 1 action before the manifestation or after the manifestation. (ditto for the 0 action)

[CalmPlains]

i feel like im being a jerkoff on nearly everything book 3 related. But am i the only person who is curious about the decisions here?

The terraclips products, created specifically by wyrd, with at least some thought of malifaux in mind, involved sewers, streets, and buildings. No forests. Most boards i've played on have a forest, maybe in a generous board two or three moderate ones.

I dont get why lilith's is all about forests now. She could create an illusionary forest, thats the only link. The nephelim never seemed like fairies or pixies, i always saw them as more demonic. She's the mother of monsters, not the mother of trees.

Other then the somewhat odd change in direction to being a dryad, her "avatar up" requirements are a bit of a concern to me. I imagine i will need to read the book and see all of the avatars, but sonnia needs to cast inferno twice and do 10 damage with spells. Lilith needs to cast illusionary forest twice (which, assuming you want to use avatar form, is kind of a must every turn anyhow), and do 10 damage to models standing next to woods? Let me guess, rasputina needs to cast ice pillars twice and do 10 damage to a models through an ice mirror. Which one of those does not belong.

I love the sculpt, and im not opposed to dryad lilith. I just dont get it.

+1

[psychocamel]

No book, but from what I've seen the following should be correct

the fast is a general action point. The Avatar continues the activation with any remaining general action points. I don't think there is ever a need to state you are using the fast action point as it is no different from the otehr two the model has.

Obviously if you've manifested usign an all action then you have n o action points left, but if you used a 2 action then you could either have done a 1 action before the manifestation or after the manifestation. (ditto for the 0 action)

That makes sense.

Also as it turns out the point is moot, I've seen a friends book and the Avatar Lilith also has fast

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Is it me? Or does Lilith's usefulness seem really limited on the board you use? It feels like if there is not a bunch of forests on the table then you're not gong to get much out of her. Which is fine, cause I really believe that the Avatars were a way to balance out the books. Cause the Neveborne ones are not as powerful as, say, Ramos is or Criid. And, Neverborne were already nice and hurty by themselves.