Thoughts on Punk Zombies with McMourning

[taozenrat]

I have Nicodem and McMourning box sets and was considering using the Punk Zombies with 'der gut doktor' as I normally go for a 35 SS game.

Looking at this for a possible list:

Ressurectionists Crew - 35 - Scrap

Dr. Douglas McMourning

--

7 Cache

Zombie Chihuahua [1ss]

• Flesh Construct
  [7ss]
  
  
• Nurse
  [5ss]
  
  
• Punk Zombie
  [5ss]
  
  
• Punk Zombie
  [5ss]
  
  
• Punk Zombie
  [5ss]
  
  
• Sebastian, Morgue Assistant
  [6ss]
  
  

has anyone done this yet? If so, with what results?

I plan to get my Canine Remains soon along with some MZs for Nico. Just trying to work with whats at hand

[Chucklemonkey]

In terms of utilising the box sets it should work perfectly well.

The pz's wont benefit from the buffs nico can normally provide but they are more than good enough on their base stats.

As you say, canine remains are where you should go next. Probably drop the Flesh construct and replace with four doggies and drop to a 6 stone cache. Although I was personally never a fan of running a nurse she would be able to charge up the dogs.

[Jmach]

Yea definitely cut the construct, I've always found it is more of an advantage to summon them up rather than pay for them. You can butcher a dog and summon one up from the pieces you get from it.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Agreed. I know it's somewhat cliche to advise on the same list everyone seems to build, but unless you are a Resser master who cannot summon flesh constructs I would never advise starting with one in play.

I also think using one Nurse with McMorning and creating I.C.D.M.s (Inter-Crew Dogbased Missles) Is a great strategy as it turns something you most likely took to just to butcher for the counters into a credible threat.

[mythicFOX]

For a starting build while you get more models that looks fine. When you expend your crew you'll probably wind up wanting to run less Punk Zombies. I tend to find them a bit defensive for a crew I want to be projecting its power further up the field.

Yea definitely cut the construct, I've always found it is more of an advantage to summon them up rather than pay for them. You can butcher a dog and summon one up from the pieces you get from it.

You'll need two dogs to summon a flesh construct. Five Body Parts for the construct, and the max you're getting from a dog is 3. That's either 2 for the corpse and 1 from A Piece for Me, or 3 from Dissection.

[VonWyll]

Strongly disagree with the no flesh construct policy. I have played a lot of games with McMourning and I can tell you that a Flesh Construct does a lot for him if your willing to pay for it.

Flesh Constructs are fast, really fast; and if you have one crossing the table to you (and it will go 15" in the first turn thanks to its free closing phase move) you have to deal with it. That means you have less time to deal with McMourning and the Punk Zombies while they advance. Guess what happens when McMourning churns out the second one in his first activation.

Bad things.

Granted, you don't want one in every list, but starting with something that can close the gap that quickly, is Hard to Wound 2, 10 wounds and Immune to Influence? Never Bad.

[Necromorph]

Yeah, to be honest I would never "start" with a Flesh Construct on the table, you can make 1 turn 1 by killing your totem if you do it right. Also...you can try the Nurse for a bit, but honestly I would ditch her for a Belle, you'll get much more use out of it.

[Ratty]

I know a few players that start with a Flesh Construct and then summon a Rogue Necromancy as he doesn't feel the need to get a big hitter into play as fast as if he hadn't got the Flesh Construct to start with.

[pixelgeek]

You'll need two dogs to summon a flesh construct. Five Body Parts for the construct, and the max you're getting from a dog is 3. That's either 2 for the corpse and 1 from A Piece for Me, or 3 from Dissection.

I thought you only needed three Soulstones to summon a large base creature?

[mythicFOX]

I thought you only needed three Soulstones to summon a large base creature?

That's wrong on so many counts I don't know where to start.

I think you mean Corpse Counters not Soul Stones. If you do mean Corpse Counters then you're talking about Nicodem, and we're all talking about McMourning. Also a Flesh Construct is a mid size (40mm) base not a large (50mm) base.

[hippieshopper]

That's wrong on so many counts I don't know where to start.

I think you mean Corpse Counters not Soul Stones. If you do mean Corpse Counters then you're talking about Nicodem, and we're all talking about McMourning. Also a Flesh Construct is a mid size (40mm) base not a large (50mm) base.

And McM uses Body Part Counters.

He turns Corpse Counters into Body Part Counters and 1 Corpse Counter equates to 2 BPC.

As for the OP...yes, Punk Zombies work very well. Of course they won't get buffed but they really don't need anymore combat than what they have.

And I do like to start with a Frankie sometimes. Von Wyll is right, they are fast as hell and they can dash across the board and give your opponent a 10 Wd problem do deal with while Sebs and his puppies nab objectives...or tear at the opponent's weaker side.

If you start with a frankie, I generally don't care if it lives or dies because it's a distraction, that's what I use them for.

If you have one or two of them backed by McM, then you're really trying to kill something. He can heal them and slap enemies with Easy to Wound if you have the parts...or just dissect things...whatever works

[Necromorph]

Meh, I guess you can start with a FC on the table, but idk if I ever would. I usually end up with a RN and 1-2 FC on the table by the end of the game, which is usually enough to handle just about anything....not to mention the other models I bought with those extra ss.

/shrug, to each his own.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Necromorph

[pixelgeek]

That's wrong on so many counts I don't know where to start.

You could always start by noting my 20 posts and thinking at maybe I'm not as familiar with the rules.

I think you mean Corpse Counters not Soul Stones.

Yah I did.

Thanks for bringing the drama though, that was certainly a nice addition.

Edited May 31, 2011 by pixelgeek

[osoi]

I know a few players that start with a Flesh Construct and then summon a Rogue Necromancy as he doesn't feel the need to get a big hitter into play as fast as if he hadn't got the Flesh Construct to start with.

I have done this a few times and it works nicely, you can use the Flesh Construct as the staging point for your Rogue Necromancy. The Flesh Construct provides a good shield for McMourning.

Meh, I guess you can start with a FC on the table, but idk if I ever would. I usually end up with a RN and 1-2 FC on the table by the end of the game, which is usually enough to handle just about anything....not to mention the other models I bought with those extra ss.

/shrug, to each his own.

I always end the game with a few big hitters on the table, thats just the way McMourning plays but by starting with the Flesh Construct (sometimes not all the time) you arent under pressure from the get go and you can keep your dogs actually doing something else apart from being a meat factory.

In all my games I have never used Punk Zombies with McMourning, its not that they are bad models they are far from that its just generally I prefer to run things with a bit more speed (Necropunks and Canine Remains) or have some manipulation ablities (Belles, Crooked Men) as combat ability is usually covered well by Seb, McMourning , Flesh Constructs, Rogue Necromancy and Killjoy (if I bring him along)

[Soundwave]

For a starting build while you get more models that looks fine. When you expend your crew you'll probably wind up wanting to run less Punk Zombies. I tend to find them a bit defensive for a crew I want to be projecting its power further up the field.

You'll need two dogs to summon a flesh construct. Five Body Parts for the construct, and the max you're getting from a dog is 3. That's either 2 for the corpse and 1 from A Piece for Me, or 3 from Dissection.

Not that important, but a dog could yield 4 BPC, not 3. Wracked with pain + scalpel magic is 1+1 BPC plus the 2 you get from the corpse. Still need more than one dog, but yeah. If you trade in a soulstone at start, you get a flesh construct for the price of 3 stones.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Soundwave

[Q'iq'el]

Cast Massive Dose on a Punk Zombie which can engage an enemy master or high value model. Use Speed if you have to charge or Stimulant if the Punk Zombie already is in melee with the target.

Then Flurry.

After the Flurry the opponent will likely be either dead or out of Control Hand, Soulstones, wounded and exposed. A normal model cannot defend itself against their 3~4 Paired Strikes with CB7 or even 11 (Stimulant), unless they spend most of their resources on it.

Granted, it works better for Nico as he can buff them himself, doesn't have to sacrifice them and even if he does bring a Nurse, he can bring back the Sacrificed Zombies later. But 5SS is still not expensive for a solid all-around fighter that you can overcharge and remove practically anything with.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Jmach]

Not that important, but a dog could yield 4 BPC, not 3. Wracked with pain + scalpel magic is 1+1 BPC plus the 2 you get from the corpse. Still need more than one dog, but yeah. If you trade in a soulstone at start, you get a flesh construct for the price of 3 stones.

I usually wracked in pain for 1, dissection for 3, pick up the corpse it leaves for 2 more body part counters, so there's 6. I always keep that first dog I butcher in base contact with McM and try to never trigger the scalpel magic. I generally trade in 2 soulstones for 2 body part counters as well at the start of the game to allow me the choice of going turn 1 rogue necromancy or construct without having to sacrifice the chihuahua, he bites the dust on turn 2 usually when I get him close to the enemy so Bete can do some damage provided some other living or undead hasn't died yet that would yield her a better position.

[mythicFOX]

I usually wracked in pain for 1, dissection for 3, pick up the corpse it leaves for 2 more body part counters, so there's 6. I always keep that first dog I butcher in base contact with McM and try to never trigger the scalpel magic. I generally trade in 2 soulstones for 2 body part counters as well at the start of the game to allow me the choice of going turn 1 rogue necromancy or construct without having to sacrifice the chihuahua, he bites the dust on turn 2 usually when I get him close to the enemy so Bete can do some damage provided some other living or undead hasn't died yet that would yield her a better position.

Hadn't considered Wracked with Pain. Still only gets you to four body part counters from a dog. I'm fairly sure models you kill with Dissection don't drop counters on the V2 card.

[Jmach]

Hadn't considered Wracked with Pain. Still only gets you to four body part counters from a dog. I'm fairly sure models you kill with Dissection don't drop counters on the V2 card.

Ah, wasn't aware there was a different card for him I bought my box a year ago and quit playing for a while due to the small amount of players till now. I'll have to look up the card, I've printed out the FAQ and ERATA and saw no changes in his abilities other than Master Surgeon.

EDIT: Yea looked up the V2 card and the ability doesn't allow those killed to drop corpse counters, I'll have to make not on my old card to the change of the ability.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Jmach

[hippieshopper]

You can hit them with Wracked With Pain (1), cheat with a mask for Scalpel Magic, whack the dog (2), kill it and pick up the Corpse Counter (4)

[Jmach]

Yea that way seems more efficient now that I know about the Dissection change.

[gru6y]

I'm kind of with Osoi on this. It's not that PZs are bad, but it seems McMourning needs the control provided by Belles or shooting provided by Crooked Men (also great with doggies).

I do not really have any positive experience with PZs, but that's mainly because I play against Guild and my samurais tend to get shot to pieces or sliced by the Peacebringer Blades by the time they manage to do anything. Maybe if they were 4SS, I'd be more keen on them.

As for the FCs, I never start with them. Always try to slice my dogs on turn 1 or 2 to bring the first one and then depending on the available resources, go for a RN or a second FC later in the game.

Edited June 4, 2011 by gru6y

[Dark Alleycat]

Punk zombies work best when paired with a belle to get the target into position. other then that,not so much.

[Kisada]

You can hit them with Wracked With Pain (1), cheat with a mask for Scalpel Magic, whack the dog (2), kill it and pick up the Corpse Counter (4)

You's guys are silly, why use an extra card to get scalpel magic off? If you don't plan to summon the first turn you can use Scalpel Slingin' to move up 6 inches, get your hit and a body part, then dissect for another 3 bpc, thats your 4 and you get to move as part it while still having a general action point left over.

Also, don't EVER trade in SS for body parts unless you really feel the need - if you take the totem for 1 SS and sac it that's 2 bodyparts right there, granted using the little guy for his fetch and whatnot could be useful but it's a better trade than turning in your SS for body parts...

OP - PZ seem pretty boss, but i haven't tried them out yet so i can't really tell ya whether they are worth using or not. If your model pool is limited though, go for it, i'm sure they'll work fine. If you have a belle she might be worth taking with 2 PZ, then you can Lure them over before wrecking their face.

[osoi]

You's guys are silly, why use an extra card to get scalpel magic off? If you don't plan to summon the first turn you can use Scalpel Slingin' to move up 6 inches, get your hit and a body part, then dissect for another 3 bpc, thats your 4 and you get to move as part it while still having a general action point left over.

As you said yourself only if you dont plan on summoning, if you want to summon (which can be a really good idea if you have the hand) then you cheat the mask.

Also look at sometimes trading 1 of your cache for a body part, it can give you fast and sometimes taht one instance of fast in the first turn can be worth the ss cost. I'm not saying always and I'm not saying never, just dont discount what possibilities it can give you. There are also some crews who you are only going to gain body parts from in the way having McMourning get into combat with their models or converting your own corpse counters into body parts ... theres always options.