Lady Justice Tactica

[VonWyll]

About This Tactica:

I am writing this mainly to generate interest and test the waters a little. If enough interest is sparked, I will continue writing this; however, I won’t bother if it doesn’t catch on.

The idea behind this tactica is to provide some general tactical advice to new players joining the game, it is not a “follow this and you will win” instruction manual. I thought it would be interesting to do one on Lady Justice as she is, in my opinion, quite a well-rounded Master but also, one that people tend to think is rather one dimensional.

If you are one of these people, we may or may not disagree.

Lady Justice - 4 Soul Stone Cache

“If Justice is blind, then I shall guide her” – Manfred von Karma

Lady Justice is the Guild’s strongarm master who is easily capable of bringing down anything that gets in her way. She has a very high melee Cb, a formidable damage arc and a strained corset. In addition, she also carries two sidearms which offers her some minor versatility (but are probably there more to make her look cool then anything else). She is a close-quarters fighter, first and foremost, and the parallels that can be drawn to her in that department are few and far between.

You may find that starting out, Lady Justice and her crew may not seem very practical (you might find, for example, that the Death Marshals die rather quickly, only having six wounds) but they are very, very lethal. In almost every situation, Lady Justice is capable of turning the tide. Even a Death Marshal, with a :rams on the flip can deal a severe damage of 7 which is more then enough to severely wound (not to mention kill) most models in a single hit.

The Guild is very good at forcing the opponent to react to you because one wrong move can see your opponents full of lead and sent to an early grave; for this reason, positioning is key. Soulstones help Lady Justice a lot and my personal recommendation is 5-8 (I would recommend 7-8 for starting players, you might find you can get away less then this as you play more games )

The Pistols

let’s get these out of the way shall we? Very rarely will you be using these, though, a sidearm is a sidearm and occasionally, you’ll find them useful (for example, if Lady Justice is falling back and she can’t do anything else) but with a combat of 4, no critical strike and a fairly average damage arc they’re really nothing special (the only reason they are remotely viable is because they are paired).

The Greatsword

A great weapon (you see what I did there? -W) capable of taking a hefty chunk out of anything it hits and with a combat of 7, she is capable of hitting most thing reliably, only needing to cheat high against masters and henchmen. As if to further display her dominance, the Greatsword comes with a to damage flips baked into it; which takes a lot of pressure off the attack dual (it means you can leave the dual at a 1-5 difference and still get a straight flip, allowing you the option to cheat fate). The greatsword also has a formidable range of 2” take advantage of this.

Greatsword Triggers

o Critical Strike - You’re not allowed to forget that you have this because you should be using it all the time. +1 damage for each in your dual total and you already have one baked into your greatsword. Potentially this means you get an additional 1-3 damage (1 for the greatsword, 1 for a card you flip/cheat and one if you are lucky enough to flip a on the soulstone, should you choose to use one) though you shouldn’t be burning soulstones just on the off chance the you get +1 damage.

o Final Repose – When you kill someone you can trigger this automatically (remember you have that in your greatsword) and whomever you’ve killed does not drop counters of any kind. This is fantastic because it stops those pesky Ressurectionists from bringing things back to life, (it is also useful against Scavengers, whom need scrap counters, mind you). You should only trigger it if your base damage is going to be enough to kill the target (duh -W). Another really nice ability.

Offensive Actions and Abilities

o Inspiring Swordplay

When Lady Justice kills someone with her Greatsword all friendly models within 10” that have Line of Sight to her gain +2 to their CB until the start closing phase. This is a very powerful ability that can greatly affect the outcome of your turn. You will not always want Lady Justice to be the first model in your crew that acts and you might not get to inspire everyone in your crew (they might have already acted or be out of range) but you’d be surprised at what a difference this actually makes.

o Blindfighter

Lady Justice is allowed to declare and make charge actions even if she cannot draw Line of Sight to the target she wants to charge. This allows you to pull all kinds of shenanigans. You can declare a charge at a model hiding behind other models and attack them by reaching over the models in your way (because you can reach 2”).

o Melee Expert [+1]

An additional action per turn that can only be spent on making a melee strike. Handy. It means you can take three strikes if your already in combat, or, you can walk twice and take a swing if you need that little bit of extra range.

Defensive Abilities and Triggers

o Riposte()

This ability is truly a wonder and it allows you to do all kinds of crazy things with it. You need a mask but if you have one on the defence you can resolve a strike on the target as if you had just hit it with your greatsword (note: this attack defies range, so a scalpel slinging McMourning or Lord Chompy Bits is not safe from it, even at a distance). Don’t forget that the baked into your greatsword still counts and may allow you to cheat.

o Defensive Stance

I know this action is available to everyone but I feel this is worth mentioning. With a trigger that’s as powerful as Riposte, giving Lady Justice on the defence can often scare your opponent into not attacking her or preventing her from disengaging (you triple the odds of flipping a mask on the defence). Yes, this does mean that she doesn’t get her third hit but if you’re already in the thick of it, upping Defensive Stance and throwing out two attacks could ensure that you walk out of there without too much damage. Yes, Lady Justice has 12 wounds but her ability to heal is limited to soulstones and soulstones alone so sometimes caution is warranted.

o Fear Not Death

Like all the Death Marshals, Lady Justice is granted +2 Willpower by the powers that be if she is the defender in a dual against the Undead. Because you don’t use this ability every game it is slightly easier to forget that you have it. My advice is…don’t.

o [1] Last Rites

This ability is actually quite potent; it can really go a long way towards giving you an edge against Ressurectionists. Being able tosacrifice all corpse and scrap counters within 6” is a good deal.

Offensive Spells

o [0]Sword Style Your only 0 action, so there is absolutely no reason not to cast it every turn. Sword style gives you one of three different perks:

§ Fate: +2 Cb on your greatsword strikes per in the dual total (remember that you have a baked into your cast, so it is always at least +2 ) This is nice but it really shines when you have a on the flip as well (giving you a bonus of +4 Cb). With a Cb of 11, you can hit even the most competent masters with relative ease

§ Cb()Onslaught: Onslaught is added to your greatsword triggers, which requires a mask but allows you to take an additional attack each time you trigger it. Sounds good, right? Admittedly, this is the variation of Sword Style I use the least as I often require my masks for other things (riposte shenanigans and other models spells and abilities). This is not a bad ability on any account, Fate and Vengeance, while not necessarily better, often prove more practical however.

§ Vengeance: You get another to damage flips made with your greatsword (which is really useful against Hard to Wound opponents, remember, this means your greatsword is now at on damage flips). Remember that Vengeance counts towards every greatsword damage flip (so it counts for ripostes as well)

o [1]Combat Prowess

This spell allows you to give the Melee Expert [+1] ability to one model (+an additional model for each in the total) and while good, this is not an ability that Lady Justice should be wasting actions on. This spell is for your totem to cast on models like the Executioner and Judge.

Defensive Spells

o [All] Restore Natural Order

The reason this spell falls into the defensive spells category is because you don’t really go on the offensive with this spell. Restore Natural Order is great for holding the line against waves of small undead (like Canine Remains) early in the game, or for spreading damage around if you want to hold a position. A lot of the time against Ressurectionists, Lady Justice is better off getting stuck in (Vengeance and the in her sword go a long way to negating Hard to Wound) but Restore Natural Order does open up some opportunities, particularly if you can get an executioner onto the scene in your next activation (after you have fried a bunch of Canine Remains) and use Last Rites and wipe those 4-5 Corpse Counters off the map.

o [1] Blind Justice

Easy enough to cast but I can tell you the only, and I mean only, time I have ever used this ability was when I was sitting at the back of the board with Nino Ortega and an Austbringer on my first turn and I wanted to snipe Pandora. Blind Justice is an Aura that lets you ignore increases in range and duels you would have to take to target models. Situational at best, more often than not, you won’t use this. If you find yourself using this frequently against multiple masters, you may wish to desist.

The Crew

Crews with Lady Justice as the Master are many and varied. Why? The answer is simple. Lady Justice is not like many of the other in that she doesn’t seem to have an apparent synergy with a certain type of model. This is often perceived as one of Lady Justice’s chief weaknesses but that is not necessarily the case. Lady Justice can take what she wants and what she wants might differ game to game. The only downside to this is that you might have to buy more models (but is that really a downside? )

In short, if you like having a choice, game to game of what you bring to the table, this Master will suit you fine. If you want to play one list all of the time, you’re in the wrong place.

Without further ado, here it is.

Edited April 14, 2011 by VonWyll

[Blacktao]

Nice post

I also play with Lady J and what you said is always what I doe

I would say keep on going!!

greetz

Black

[DennisJ]

Very nice write up, you have my interest, please continue.

[yames]

the only thing i would add (very nice write up btw) you have down combat prowess is for ur totem to cast i personlay disagree i use justice for it all the time i use her to sit behind the troops (mostly stalkers our guild guards) and buffing them untill the enemy is going to die in one hit (to trigger inspireing swordplay) or a big enuf threat appears that warrents her being brought into action. bringer her up to the front to soon quite often ends with a focus of attacks in her direction.

at least thats an alternate way to play her to add in if you start doing different simple crew tactics later.

[Blacktao]

the only thing i would add (very nice write up btw) you have down combat prowess is for ur totem to cast i personlay disagree i use justice for it all the time i use her to sit behind the troops (mostly stalkers our guild guards) and buffing them untill the enemy is going to die in one hit (to trigger inspireing swordplay) or a big enuf threat appears that warrents her being brought into action. bringer her up to the front to soon quite often ends with a focus of attacks in her direction.

at least thats an alternate way to play her to add in if you start doing different simple crew tactics later.

cool also nice tactic

mostly I rush her together with the judge, slicing the enemy up

having some backup from the death marchals, nino, santiago and francisco

I'm going to try that one

[warhamsterdave]

Exelent topic.

I am quite new to the game and quickly decided that Lady J and Lucious would form the leaders for my chosen crew.

The quality of the models within the guild range have made me want to collect a good selection to use with Lady J and/or Lucious.

The effort and detail you have put into this thread is greatly appreciated by me and I am sure many other newer players and indeed even some longer term players.

Thank you very much and I hope you continue with this tactica in the near future.

Dave.

[alienated one]

Great post. One problem with it. You cannot trigger Riposte on a disengaging strike.

This is listed on pg 48 of the mini rulebook under the section Disengaging Strikes.

"No triggers can be declared by the blocking or moving model during this Strike."

[paradox]

I'll add that Justice REALLY likes alot of Stones. I find I rely on having the full 8 quite often, and when I don't I really notice the difference.

As for Sword-Styles, I find I use Fate more than anything else. Especially with a solid (but not very high) Ram in my hand. I very often have Justice at Cb11.

I use Onslaught next most often. You really want at least a couple good Masks if you choose to do this Style, plus at least a few stones. Normally, this is what I use to drop tough, meaty models (spend a turn or two stacking the hand before that).

I don't think I've ever used Vengeance. Either Fate gets Cb high enough that I'll be doing stupid amounts of damage per swing, or Onslaught (properly set up) will let me ping things down 4-5 damage at a time.

[VonWyll]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.

@Alienated One: Thanks, fixed Riposte. Totally my bad.

@Paradox: I find that :rams is the predominant suit in the guild but :masks are definably a close second. For this reason, I find Fate and Vengeance a more optimal choice. If I am saving cards for Onslaught i tend to find that it inhibits my play style a little.

@Yames: Well done sir, you're getting ahead of me. I will be touching on this style of play when i get round to doing her Totems

[Absolution Black]

Yep, keep it up!

Will you be explaining how and what models interact the best with the good Lady?

Edited April 14, 2011 by Absolution Black

[pepe5454]

I am a newb but a few things I have learned in the few games I have played is depending on the enemy holding a mid level mask in your hand when you expect to get the lady in close combat soon can be a good idea certainly if you have a couple 13's you can use for offense. Onslaght can be brutal as long as you can cast it. If you know your enemies model does not have something that they can push out of the way after damage it's great but something that can push away after damage you are better off using one of the others.

Keeping your marshals within 4 inches of eachother it can be worth it to spend one of their ap's on finish the job. Unless I read it wrong and it does not stack with critical strike your weak damage jumps up to a 4 on your other marshals in melee with a ram.

Lastly always remember slow to die it can be easy to forget but is a game changer.

[Tonka73]

Good info! can we have more please :top:. Any ideas on how to beat Collette with Lady J!

[VonWyll]

Good info! can we have more please :top:. Any ideas on how to beat Collette with Lady J!

Just tidied up a little. Filled in a bit more about Lady J early on and moved the Crew Information lower so I am now ready to start talking about models and how they work with her.

I will be listing which models I have found to be exceptionally useful against what Master, as I mentioned, Lady Justice does not go to every game with the same crew.

I thought I would answer you though, albeit briefly, because it seems unfair to leave you hanging when I have only just begun and probably won't get to tactics against other masters for a while.

Colette is all about overwhelming activations. She will do a lot of things, most of it however is smoke and mirrors, and how do you deal with smoke and mirrors? You smash the mirror and fan away the smoke (to deconstruct my metaphor you do this with bullets and a really big sword).

Nino Ortega is amazing against Colette. In fact, he is downright amazing in most situations but very rarely will Colette have a counter to him. Use Nino to pick apart any showgirls that you can (it stops Colette and Cassandra being able to switch places with them and reduces Colette and Cassandra's maneuverability) once this is done, you will find the game much more manageable.

Remember that Colette has Slow to Die, so even if you do manage to get a decent slug at her (which is in itself, not a cakewalk) if you kill her, she will just use a soulstone to not die (aka, heal from zero wounds to 1-3) so often, it is best to focus on dealing with her crew.

Judge and/or Samael Hopkins are also very useful. Both have arrest, which means you can drain Colette's control hand and attempt Headshots with Nino to get easy kills or burn Soulstones. If Colette is foolish enough to burn her hand and let you take Headshots, go for it. If she sacrifices soulstones to save a alive, you have slowed her down a lot, if she doesn't, she dies.

Hope that helps some.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Don't forget models buried don't go through closing phase so priming her with 2 swordplays is a blast. High cb and onslaught yes please.

Nino judge in same list compete for your masks in your control hand. As an opponent if I see both I dont worry about riposte since 1 of 3 maybe losing out.

[VonWyll]

Don't forget models buried don't go through closing phase so priming her with 2 swordplays is a blast. High cb and onslaught yes please.

Nino judge in same list compete for your masks in your control hand. As an opponent if I see both I dont worry about riposte since 1 of 3 maybe losing out.

Nino and Judge in the same list would compete for your masks, that is true, but we are talking about Colette here. Against Colette, Riposte isn't a big trick. Anything you would want to Riposte (and lets face it, there is only 1, the Coryphee Duet) is also able to use soulstones and your defense is much lower then it's attack. The masks in this list are for Nino, he is, in this case the man for the job to shut down Colette's mobility. The reason you want Judge or Samael is for another damage threat and Arrest.

Colette often discards cards to get more soulstones, if she then cheats later on, one Arrest will bring her into Headshot Territory. Then, she is losing models or soulstones. Alternatively, she may play it safe, and not be willing to risk cheating, either way, you can capitalize.

That is the beginning of the end for Colette.

Edited April 14, 2011 by VonWyll

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Nino and Judge in the same list would compete for your masks, that is true, but we are talking about Colette here. Against Colette, Riposte isn't a big trick. Anything you would want to Riposte (and lets face it, there is only 1, the Coryphee Duet) is also able to use soulstones and your defense is much lower then it's attack. The masks in this list are for Nino, he is, in this case the man for the job to shut down Colette's mobility. The reason you want Judge or Samael is for another damage threat and Arrest.

Colette often discards cards to get more soulstones, if she then cheats later on, one Arrest will bring her into Headshot Territory. Then, she is losing models or soulstones. Alternatively, she may play it safe, and not be willing to risk cheating, either way, you can capitalize.

That is the beginning of the end for Colette.

My comment was more a general comment. I know a lot of people that run both judge and Nino in the same list with Lady j.

I wasnt speaking about Colette, but to that point riposte is still a threat for a lot her crew, doesn't matter who attacks her if it is a melee strike your opponent will be thinking about it. However I agree Judge and Nino are still great in the list regardless of your opponent. I usually run both.

[Tosh]

I have a couple of questions on lady J #1

o Riposte()

This ability is truly a wonder and it allows you to do all kinds of crazy things with it. You need a mask but if you have one on the defence you can resolve a strike on the target as if you had just hit it with your greatsword (note: this attack defies range, so a scalpel slinging McMourning or Lord Chompy Bits is not safe from it, even at a distance). Don’t forget that the baked into your greatsword still counts and may allow you to cheat.

does this even count for things way out of her range? like if Nino ortega shoots her from a 16 range and she defends and triggers Riposte does is still go off cuz it defies range?

my other question was on melee expert and it's more of a general question then just for lady J. If i have a model with melee expert such as lady J can she only use it for close range strikes with her great sword or can she also use it to make a ranged strike with her guns?

[Sezar]

does this even count for things way out of her range? like if Nino ortega shoots her from a 16 range and she defends and triggers Riposte does is still go off cuz it defies range?

Obviously no

my other question was on melee expert and it's more of a general question then just for lady J. If i have a model with melee expert such as lady J can she only use it for close range strikes with her great sword or can she also use it to make a ranged strike with her guns?

Same, that +1 AP can only be used on melee Strikes

[Adran]

I have a couple of questions on lady J #1

o Riposte()

This ability is truly a wonder and it allows you to do all kinds of crazy things with it. You need a mask but if you have one on the defence you can resolve a strike on the target as if you had just hit it with your greatsword (note: this attack defies range, so a scalpel slinging McMourning or Lord Chompy Bits is not safe from it, even at a distance). Don’t forget that the baked into your greatsword still counts and may allow you to cheat.

does this even count for things way out of her range? like if Nino ortega shoots her from a 16 range and she defends and triggers Riposte does is still go off cuz it defies range?

my other question was on melee expert and it's more of a general question then just for lady J. If i have a model with melee expert such as lady J can she only use it for close range strikes with her great sword or can she also use it to make a ranged strike with her guns?

Reposte only works on melee strikes, but there is no range limit.

So whilst it will never work on Nino shooting, you can use it against Misaki 6 inches away.

There is a difference between melee strikes (marked with claws) and ranged strikes (marked with a gun).

Things which refer toi one, do not effect the other.

Hope that helps

Phil

[Sholto]

One thing I have never tried, but after seeing the Dreamer's tricks I wonder if it would work here - have Lady J use Blind Justice, Defensive Stance and Sword Style, then Bury her in a Pine Box. The Death Marshall moves up in later Turns and brings Lady J out (either by dying or by casting Pine Box again). Lady J will be unburied with all effects still on her, and can use another (0) Sword Style to have two in effect at once (for that Turn).

[paradox]

One thing I have never tried, but after seeing the Dreamer's tricks I wonder if it would work here - have Lady J use Blind Justice, Defensive Stance and Sword Style, then Bury her in a Pine Box. The Death Marshall moves up in later Turns and brings Lady J out (either by dying or by casting Pine Box again). Lady J will be unburied with all effects still on her, and can use another (0) Sword Style to have two in effect at once (for that Turn).

So let me wrap my head around how this works.

If you bury a model, it essentially freezes the effects on them (I'm assuming because they never go through a "Close/End Turn" phase).

So when they pop back up, all that is still in effect. So Justice is effected by a sword style, defensive stance etc. But when she pops out, she still has a complete normal activation. And since nothing says you CAN'T have 2 sword styles in effect, you can.

I'm sure this is an effective trick, but it's pretty counter-intuitive and more than a little cheesy. I'm not a huge fan. Tricks like this tend to kill a game, cause every release has to do it better.

However, as noted, it sure seems like a solid trick to pull off. I can see dropping a couple rams into Fate, to get a high Cb, then building up some nice masks to trigger Onslaught for when you pop out, so you cab drop a few baddies in a single activation (Cb 11 + Onslaught and 3 attacks, when you have some solid masks and stones to cheat with....)

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

This works as in she gets all those buffs but keep in mind to bury is a 2 action and death marshals move at 4". This means one lost turn for moving up. Second she will only be moving at a slow pace, last you either hope your opponent kills the marshal or is at least willing to move within 3" and stay there until the next activation. You could also waste another models activation to kill the marshal.

Yes this is a cheese move, but look at all the weaknesses of it. I love this idea in a brawl only so I can use Perdita to obey the marshal up so Last j isn't sitting in the backfield. In a scrap only time this would be reasonable is if your opponent has contain power.

[pepe5454]

hmmm I have been buring my SoC however last game I played I was told that the coming out happens at the start of the closing phase so the model that was buried does not get any actions until the next turn. Rereading the card however just states that the burying action happens at start closing not the unburying. So not positive on the workings on it yet.

However if the person telling me that I couldnt take an action was wrong the having two swordstyles active seems like kinda like using slightly unclear wording in the rules to gain an advantage so not sure I will try that unless I see some errata to clarify it and that it is ok.

[pepe5454]

sorry for duoble post but if this is clarified already somewhere could someone point it out I am searching the the rules discussion. If it is clarified and works would I be able to have My SOC cast haste on lady J as well as have her cast fate or onslaught then bury her pop out and cast onslaught so she would have fast+fate+onslaght when she came out?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

That is all perfectly cool in the rules. This combo costly but legal the downside probably helps out weigh the return that is at least how I feel. The dreamer can do worse shennigans with bury than the guild.