Crooked men help

[CrouchingMoose]

So I'm having trouble getting the crooked men to be useful for me...the shafted markers they place rarely hit anything...what am I missing, should I be droping the shafts after the one I want to target has activated? Or should I just use it as a deterrent to keep people from moving through lanes I don't like?

Also at the end when the shafts are counted, can a single model be hit with multiple shafted markers? (Could I put 3 on 1 guy and spike the damage on him?

[Dark Alleycat]

Ok..first of all,I would recommend using the crooked men's shafted markers to deny areas. Also they work wonderfully to keep people from charging the Crooked men. Another possible option is to pair a crooked man with a rotten belle,to pull people onto the markers.

[Drifter]

I use the markers to prevent charges too. Otherwise I go with DarkAlleyCat again and say secure areas with the markers. I often use them to make it quite risky for people to walk where I don't want them. It's kind of psychological warfare

That said, I must say, that I shoot and shovel-to-face more often than I place markers...

A model must end its activation in range of a marker, so it wont go off, when a belle pulls it in range but only when the model activates and stays there.

I thought the card says, that the markers vanish after one use, but I haven't the book with me and I'm not sure.

Cheers,

Drifter

[SuicideCommando]

A model must end its activation in range of a marker, so it wont go off, when a belle pulls it in range but only when the model activates and stays there.

Current V2 card says:

When a model ends a move or Push

within 2” of a Shafted marker, remove the marker

and the model’s controller flips a Fate Card.

[Drifter]

Current V2 card says:

What? Got a V2 card in front of me saying: "When a model ends its activation within 2" of a Shafted marker..."

Didn't know about this new wording, thanks man.

Cheers,

Drifter

[CrouchingMoose]

So wait...now there's 2 different v2 cards out there for crooked men?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

So wait...now there's 2 different v2 cards out there for crooked men?

Read the V2 Card thread...

And look at the document attached to that post.

Crooked Man A (Lantern) - PLEASE CHECK YOUR CARD! The correct V2 Card has this for the description of “Shafted”:

“Place 1 Shafted marker within 6” of this model. When a model ends a move or Push within 2” of a Shafted marker, remove the marker and the model’s controller flips a Fate Card. If the value is a Joker, the model is killed. If the value is a 1-7 the model suffers 3 Dg. If the value is 8-13 the model receives Paralyzed. Crooked Man models are immune to Shafted markers. Shafted markers are removed from play at the End Closing Phase.”

Crooked Man B (Hammer) - PLEASE CHECK YOUR CARD! The correct V2 Card has this for the description of “Shafted”:

“Place 1 Shafted marker within 6” of this model. When a model ends a move or Push within 2” of a Shafted marker, remove the marker and the model’s controller flips a Fate Card. If the value is a Joker, the model is killed. If the value is a 1-7 the model suffers 3 Dg. If the value is 8-13 the model receives Paralyzed. Crooked Man models are immune to Shafted markers. Shafted markers are removed from play at the End Closing Phase.”

Crooked Man C (Bird) - PLEASE CHECK YOUR CARD! The correct V2 Card has this for the description of “Shafted”:

“Place 1 Shafted marker within 6” of this model. When a model ends a move or Push within 2” of a Shafted marker, remove the marker and the model’s controller flips a Fate Card. If the value is a Joker, the model is killed. If the value is a 1-7 the model suffers 3 Dg. If the value is 8-13 the model receives Paralyzed. Crooked Man models are immune to Shafted markers. Shafted markers are removed from play at the End Closing Phase.”

[PicklesGrr]

So wait...now there's 2 different v2 cards out there for crooked men?

Yes.

[Dark Alleycat]

Yes,and the new version makes a Crooked Man and Rotten Belle combo insanely nasty for any model. Meaning as long as they aren't moved from that spot,you can place the markers under other of your models and they wont trigger it.

Its risky but as long as your enemy cant force you to move,you can hurt them alot more then you would think. I just need to find out if being placed counts as movement lol. and if so,whether having multiple models trip it at the very same time would mean they are all affected.

[hippieshopper]

Therefore...use a belle.

Lure people into them...most of the time Paralyze is your best bet.

It's good to make people think twice about getting near Nico.

I usually sit a Punk Zombie, Morty, and Crooked Man near him and that does the trick for me.

[JMGraham]

Yes,and the new version makes a Crooked Man and Rotten Belle combo insanely nasty for any model. Meaning as long as they aren't moved from that spot,you can place the markers under other of your models and they wont trigger it.

This! Shafted markers are wonderful for area control - use them to block off avenues others can use to get where you don't want them to. A high likelyhood of paralyze scares the bejeesus out of folks. Our local Pandora player has been gunshy ever since Pandora got weakened by Jack Daw (no ss use or cheating) and lured onto a shafted marker where she flipped ... a joker.

Nothing better than luring an enemy model into two or more shafted markers and a convict gunslinger.

[Bienivrai]

Love the shaft, lure combo !

[i_was_like_you]

So placing one or more shafted markers under Mortimer who has already used Six Feet Under would make for quite the deterrent to charging him, assuming the charging model in question only had a melee range of 2 or less.

[Q'iq'el]

Shafted markers have only limited functionality as charge deterents. The reason for that is that they go away in the Closing Phase.

If you know the charge is imminent (i.e. the opponent models are in charge range and haven't activated yet) you may try to drop some markers around the model you want to protect, but if your opponent waits through and gets to move first in the next turn, the markers will be gone and the charge will go through safely.

Luring opponent into the shafted markers is far more powerful I think. And obviously area denial/objective defense is the primary function here.

In other words, the earlier in your turn you deploy them, the more powerful they are (more enemy activations are affected by them)... but in most crews Crooked Men are not the models you want to activate early. This isn't a conflict that can't be resolved once and for good - you have to weight costs and benefits each time you start a turn and decide how badly you need these markers.

Ultimately, Shafted is sort of a bonus ability on Crooked Men and you can't expect to be able to profit from it in every game. The Crooked Men are so cheap even Mortimer can raise them, they are solid melee fighters (for the price) and bring decent ranged AoE attack, which Ressurectionists' crews typically lack. Shafted is almost too powerful an ability for a 4 soulstone model and only all the restrictions make it balanced.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Dark Alleycat]

But a rotten belle/crooked man combo means it is no longer up to your opponent to decide when its used,its up to you.

[Q'iq'el]

But a rotten belle/crooked man combo means it is no longer up to your opponent to decide when its used,its up to you.

I agree Lure makes it more powerful (as I admitted in my first post), but you have to see the cost/benefit here too.

Shafted on it's own is a 9+ cast from a 4SS model. There are decent chances of pulling it off even without cheating and it does decent damage even when the opponent caught in it flips low. It would be way overpowered an ability if not for the fact it is so easy to avoid and serves as a deterrent mostly.

When you add a Rotten Belle to the equation, you gain on control, but you pay 4SS more for the models needed to pull it off and you spend 1 more AP and 1 more activation on making it work. For Lure to go through you need a high :masks in your hand and your opponent can resist it too - so there's a Control Card cost to consider as well.

I'm not saying the combo is bad or unreliable. I'm just saying that Crooked Men are perfectly fine minions as-is, when you use them only for Cave In and occasional melee fight. That they can lay down some "mines" to block a street or to better guard an objective is a nice bonus, but you don't need to make Shafted work to get their money worth out of Crooked Men.

Now if you happen to have a Rotten Belle around (either Seamus player or because your list relies on having one or two for other reasons) or even the Hanged (they can push models too), then by all means improve the reliability of Shafted with your spare APs.

But if you want to spend 8SS just to get access to Shafted, then consider Bête Noire, who is better at paralyzing, killing and slowing down opponents for the same price. And she is just as good Area Denial model, as she can pop out of any of your models.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Dark Alleycat]

you don't need a mask,Thanks to Seductive (+4-Mask when casting lure) the belle's have it cooked in allready. so you have an even or better chance against every model in the game but Zoraida and hollow waifs. Yes it requires an extra activation,but its certainly worth it.

Cave in requires a 7+ and can be resisted. Shafted requires a 9+ but it doesn't give a resist.

But remember,the question was about crooked men and what can make them better. To my mind there is nothing out there that can benefit a crooked man more then to be paired with a rotten belle.

Gives you even more board control,a good melee combatant and a very tough melee combatant.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Dark Alleycat

[Q'iq'el]

you don't need a mask,Thanks to Seductive (+4-Mask when casting lure) the belle's have it cooked in allready. and since so you have an even or better chance against every model in the game but Zoraida and hollow waifs.

Ah right! You can tell I don't face Rotten Belles all that often. It still means engaging another model, having to cheat (as the opponent will obviously cheat to resist a pull towards a Shafted marker) and spending multiple activations and APs to set up the opponent for 3Dg or Paralyzed.

As I said, there are other ways to get better result for less.

Cave in requires a 7+ and can be resisted. Shafted requires a 9+ but it doesn't give a resist.

But remember,the question was about crooked men and what can make them better.

The question was mostly how to make Shafted work and the suggestions were good - I'm not contesting them.

I'm just trying to point out that Crooked Men are worth their price even if you take the Shafted away (sure, Cave In can be resisted, but it comes from a 4SS model!) and because of that if you use Shafted only situationally (for area denial) you already get plenty of good use out of them.

Upping it with Rotten Belles may simply not be worth the effort (unless your name is Seamus and you swim in them anyway), as you can get much better models for the price.

[Happy Skrewk]

I've been thinking about getting some crooked for a while to boost my Seamus crew as I noticed the nasty shafted/lure trick. This thread has helped me take that plunge. Shame I have just bought Seb and the convict.

Maybe next month...

[Dark Alleycat]

The convict gunslinger is another good addition to the Seamus crew.

[shekbo]

Oooooooohhhh, so beautiful... I never knew that errata...

I usually use them for denial, let me rush a flank while a couple shafts cover it up, or spam the little beauties around a treasure chest to make my opponent's life a pain.