Thoughts on Stitched Together

[Natty]

So... someone pointed out that on the new Stitched Together card, after his ability to avoid being killed goes off, he can't be sacrificed or buried. So he is going to die at the end of the turn no matter what.

Is it just me, or did that completely ruin the model for anyone else? I doubt I'll even buy them now. The bury/unbury so they never die was most of their appeal to me and I was really looking forward to getting to play them.

Before, they seemed like a model that took some skill to play, with the opponent needing to know to ignore them, or bury them, or sacrifice them, or kill any models that could bury them instead, just to make sure they don't come back. While the Dreamer had to make sure they died after activation to give them reactivate, make sure to keep activations in the right order to rebury them, make sure to keep the right models alive and nearby to rebury them, all the while keeping them in a position where they are between the opponents ranged models and your own so the fog is useful.

Now... they are a walking fog machine that explodes. Lost all of the appeal to me. Not to mention they have a low wp and are entirely wp based. The whole point of the model was burying and reburying them. Now that's gone.

Pfffffffttt... I spit upon you, errata'ed Stiched Together. I spit upon you!

[wrabbit37]

Don't forget their abilities with card control. Honestly, that's the ability I really like with them. Getting 1-2 gambles off does wonders for giving your force a good handle on the turn. I'll still be using them quite a bit. I liked their blowing up/never dying bit, but that was a bit much.

[Keltheos]

They're quite good even without that recursion bit.

Believe me, I've made enough folks cry without ever recycling them.

[karn987]

They're quite good even without that recursion bit.

Believe me, I've made enough folks cry without ever recycling them.

+1 on this.

I never liked the infinite cycle to begin with, it was nasty but it always felt a bit wrong. It was very powerful, but made me feel dirty.

I still love them, just means you can't use them as the suicidal blitzers of your army any more and expect them to live forever. Their Fog is still amazing and their card chomping abilites are extremely handy. Plus Gamble Your Life is still a great ability for getting around a lot of defensive abilities. Sure their Wp is not high, but nothing a Madness or Pandora can't fix with a snap of their fingers.

:stitched:love:

Edited November 8, 2010 by karn987

[wrabbit37]

:stitched:love:

The whole eyeball-ing the Stitched Together's crotch makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

[Natty]

The whole eyeball-ing the Stitched Together's crotch makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

Second that

[Natty]

I think that I just felt like burying and unburying them were part of the reason they existed, and that it was intentional, and their defining characteristic. Now they don't have that synergy with the dreamer they used to (or no more synergy than any other Nightmare, and in fact they are a lot better for most other Neverborn crews because the Dreamer doesn't have to worry about ranged attacks anywhere near as much as all of the other Neverborn crews).

Also, I'm not saying they aren't good anymore, I'm just saying they took away the thing that made them so fun looking to play.

[Cambeul]

Fixed for you, better?

[Q'iq'el]

Fixed for you, better?

A smiley with foot fetish?!

[karn987]

... well if you had to pick a pair of feet to worship.... *whistles and tries to look innocent*

[nerdelemental]

Yeah, Natty, I think you need to run them. Even with their fix, the turn they die, they're invulnerable to more damage.

Before this thread I had commented to a friend after our last game session that they might still be too good. They're going in EVERY Neverborn list I build. Two or three Stitched in every list without fail. They're the best with Pandora, IMO. Even changes the way she plays. Without them, my 'Dora list is strong but relies upon Self-Loathing or morale failing with pinging damage for fails. With the Stitched, she spams the negative on Wp duels and then the Stiched walk up and Gamble their life, tearing the opposition apart. They're amazing.

And then the puff of gas...good lord. That's 4" in front and behind them...9" bubble of cloud...you cannot even shoot the buggers!

With endless Dreamer recursion...they're just stupid.

[tadaka]

Now if we could just make them constructs like the other dolls they would be good

[karn987]

I will admit... that part is a little strange.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Now if we could just make them constructs like the other dolls they would be good

And let Leveticus hire them? I don't think so.

[karn987]

And let Leveticus hire them? I don't think so.

Right! That's why! He has more then enough already =D. To think what that Fog would do for him...

:leveticus<=== Sad Levy :sad2:

[Gottkaiser]

I love the stitched with Collodi. Give them hard to kill, make them fast in the turn you want, and before they die, use a wicked doll to heal them. If you don't flip severe damage, the hard to kill gives you 2 Gambles with no risk of losing the model. With a healing wicked doll, this forces the enemy to do damage twice. He won't dare killing it on the turn it got fast from Collodi.

Yes, it was a cuddle for the stitched, but I think they are very viable now. And I love the models.

[tadaka]

Thats the point old guy all ways need more more more more more.

And let Leveticus hire them? I don't think so.

[Natty]

With endless Dreamer recursion...they're just stupid.

Well, they were amazing for other lists as they were, and this change actually buffed them for non-Dreamer lists. The Dreamer, however, doesn't really care about the fog, since he drops stuff right on your head anyway. They had nice synergy with the Dreamer before, and now they lost that.

Meh. Like I said; they are still viable. I am just whining that a really neat mechanism that I was looking forward to playing with got removed from the game.

[saerko]

I dunno, when I first heard about the bury/unbury tactic I thought it sounded pretty broken. A 5 SS model shouldn't be able to cheat death for an entire game just because the Dreamer has lots of bury/unbury in his armies.

That said, I've played with these guys without using that tactic in two games so far, and they haven't failed to earn their points back yet. I mean, each one can spam Gamble Your Life 4 times in a single turn, doing a minimum of 3 damage with every hit. Given that Wp 6 is as high or higher than most other models, I've found you're pretty guaranteed to inflict at least 6-9 damage on the opponent before they pop. Given that those damage values tend to drop all but the toughest models in the game, they're still fantastic.

Creepy Fog is nothing to shake a stick at either. There are plenty of nasty spells and ranged attacks that can kill the Dreamer, and 4" obscuring is enough to stop most dead in their tracks.

[Sholto]

Yeah - just watch out for models with Hunter (Nino and Sammael, for example) who can see 6" into Obscuring Terrain.

[ForceVoid]

I'm still pumped to use them with Pandora, just for the sheer number of WP duels they can force.

[Natty]

I'm still pumped to use them with Pandora, just for the sheer number of WP duels they can force.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pandora should be bringing almost all physical damage minions and a doppelganger. Taking a bunch of Wp minions is just asking to get your butt kicked by a high Wp or stubborn crew.

I can see taking 1 stitched together with Pandora mainly for the cover they provide though. That fog would be nasty against a ranged crew.

[karn987]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pandora should be bringing almost all physical damage minions and a doppelganger. Taking a bunch of Wp minions is just asking to get your butt kicked by a high Wp or stubborn crew.

I can see taking 1 stitched together with Pandora mainly for the cover they provide though. That fog would be nasty against a ranged crew.

It works really well both ways =D

Even against high wp/stubborn minions you can easily take them down with some Madness or Pandora debuffing before hand. Its really not as clean cut as you make it seem Natty. All melee is ok, but it's going to fail on a number of cases just like all Wp effects will. As I have said and recommend heavily, the best is to mix the two. Hense why her base box set has Kade in it (besides fluff reasons). He is the melee for the starter set and does an excellent job at being both melee and wp based.

Your not utilizing your master to their fullest if you ignore their most potent abilities. You WANT wp based minions and the more dangerous and numerous, the better. Stitched Together and Madness are amazing for Pandora and I would recommend at least one or the other along with Sorrows in any Pandora list.

So no, I say your wrong Natty. You will not get your butt kicked by those lists automatically. You will have a harder fight, but you still have a good chance of winning. You debuff. Debuffing = victory for Pandora because even a Wp 6 model with Stubborn is going to be in a lot of trouble against your WP effects if they have a negative flip on them. There are more reasons then just this to put in several potent Wp based effects.

But should you go all Wp based? Sure if you want to, just be aware of what has a better chance against it. The best lists for Pandora mix both and focus on the models that also mix both though generally go more Wp heavy (that is where her teath are after all).

My advice to you Natty is adapt your tactics more. Move a bit slower during the game and make sure to Debuff before you start your attack even if it takes all of Pandora's actions to get everyone debuffed. But otherwise, I think you just need to try it more. I honestly have no clue why you would think Pandora is going to get her butt kicked by high wp crews. She is equipped to handle it, its a harder fight like I said but she can do it fine. =)

Edited November 11, 2010 by karn987