Crooked Men

[Daggermouth]

So, I tried crooked men out today because I like the models and the "idea" behind them and what they do (or are meant to do). There were a few rules questions thar came up today that I'm hoping to get some wyrd sanctioned answers to.

1: if a model has already ended it's activation can it be lured into a marker triggering it's effect?

2: can one model trigger two crooked markers by being equidistant from them at the end of their activation.

Thanks everyone, I'm hoping to get some answers that will help me justify giving them a second look.

[gregdorf]

I would say no and no.

1. the shafted marker only comes into effect when a model ends its activation, not movement.

2. It says that the model removes one shafted marker and flips to see the result, not all.

[Daggermouth]

That's how we played it, and if that's the case I can't ever see myself using crooked men again. There's just too many better options for the Soulstones. Unfortunate really.

[tenabrae]

Crooked Men offer great area denial, there aren't many 'land mine' options in Malifaux other than putting a model somewhere and hoping it doesn't get shot.

Crooked Men also offer a nice little blast to help with those masters that are otherwise tricky to target (lilith, pandora, perdita)

[Daggermouth]

Yeah, I understand their role, it's just so easy to avoid the markers since you can move through them and not "end your activation" near them. I think they might be better if you spam them on the table, but then you're not going to have SS for models that will actually kill something.

[Satyrwyld]

It's all in the strategy. A marker or two on top of a treasure token or in the middle of a claim jump terrain can ruin the opposing crew's day. Just one more note on the pile of reasons to remember you pick your crew AFTER flipping for strategies.

[jmp_mydog]

For them to be effective you need to run 2-3 and have some way of bringing them back (Nicodem, Mortimer).

[Daggermouth]

Yeah, using them when your opponent has claim jump or treasure hunt sounds pretty cool as long as you can get to it first. I usually run McM and am getting into Seamus, so I don't have any way to bring then back.

[LastDinosaur]

If you use Nicodem or Bête you can also cast them at a Paralyzed model and there's little your opponent can do about it.

[Aberration]

If you use Nicodem or Bête you can also cast them at a Paralyzed model and there's little your opponent can do about it.

haha thats a good idea...insult to injury!

[gregdorf]

I like them, they can really screw with your opponent. One of my favorite tricks is to wait till there are models in melee and then place a maker on the far side of the combat so that it only effects the other combatant. It can really screw up the other players plan on what priority to activate models.

[Q'iq'el]

Yeah, I understand their role, it's just so easy to avoid the markers since you can move through them and not "end your activation" near them. I think they might be better if you spam them on the table, but then you're not going to have SS for models that will actually kill something.

I think you are focusing on the markers too much.

For the price Crooked Men have very solid stats both for close combat and for ranged attacks - you can additionally boost them with all the buffs Ressurectionists have.

It may not be relevant for all crews, but their low SS cost means even Mortimer can summon them.

They bring solid blast damage to the table - Even Nicodem with very powerful blast attack uses only one blast marker.

All in all very solid models. I've just completed mine - they'll be joining Nicodem's crew first, helping him blast away at range, blocking up less desirable paths so that melee cannot come too close too early and then taking the brunt of the first wave of opponent's charges. From victims on both sides the Punk Zombies will arise! Bloodbath will ensue. :evil:

Edited July 30, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[jmp_mydog]

I think you are focusing on the markers too much.

For the price Crooked Men have very solid stats both for close combat and for ranged attacks - you can additionally boost them with all the buffs Ressurectionists have.

It may not be relevant for all crews, but their low SS cost means even Mortimer can summon them.

They bring solid blast damage to the table - Even Nicodem with very powerful blast attack uses only one blast marker.

All in all very solid models. I've just completed mine - they'll be joining Nicodem's crew first, helping him blast away at range, blocking up less desirable paths so that melee cannot come too clearly and then taking the brunt of the first wave of opponent's charges. From victims on both sides the Punk Zombies will arise! Bloodbath will ensue. :evil:

And with the change to Mortimer's Exhume spell, he becomes relevant to all the current Res. Masters. Being able to pop out a corpse counter semi-reliably is a big asset, as is his ability to summon crooked men.

[Peterdita]

Yeah, I agree, the markers are fun, but not exactly their purpose. That minig pick hits at 2" with a cb of 6 and the crow trigger is pretty nasty. I have them as the front lines since they are evasive and crooked (+2df on range). You can march up with them shooting and then they can drop tokens to block charge lanes or block objectives.

I'm still getting the hang of them but I can tell how much they irritate my opponent and thats always a good thing.

[Daggermouth]

Wow! Thanks for all the great replies! Looks like I'll give them another shot after all! I was playing them against Ramos and he just sent electrical creations at me and blew them up, so I was pretty frustrated in general. I really like the idea of dropping markers on models in melee, that's pretty awesome.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Daggermouth

[Guy in Suit]

Yeah, I'm glad you got turned off to them and didn't take them against my Viks! The 2" melee range makes a huge difference as I'm sure you saw.

[Daggermouth]

Yeah, I'm glad you got turned off to them and didn't take them against my Viks! The 2" melee range makes a huge difference as I'm sure you saw.

I'll get you gadget.... NEXT TIME!

I'm starting to see their potential, it's all about the "not obvious" solution. And totally depends on the strategy/schemes.

[Peterdita]

Was playing with one again last night and had a bit of an interesting situation. I was vs. a Neverborn crew with a Wldgeist. It was posted up in the in the middle fo the board in a forest Lilith created. It was forced to take a flip for the Shafted marker and got paralyzed.

Now, as long as I win initiative next turn (or he wins and doesn't activate the Waldgiest first) I can continue to drop the countere right on it and it can't do chit about it! It will have to activate at some point and lose paralyzed, thus ending its activation and has to reflip again.

Pretty cool thing I'll remember: once you got something paralyzed, unless you have something better to do with the crooked man, stay in range of them and keep dropping the marker! They will have to either:

1) win iniative

2) flip again for the new token you drop this turn

3) bring something else in to flip instead.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Peterdita

[shekbo]

Oh, I love crooked men. So much that I made custom shafted counters for myself when I had some free time. Those shafts are just so damn useful for support... my biggest problem, I suppose, is the low casting, which makes it hard to get any of their spells off successfully unless you can cheat the flip.

But yeah, these guys are a killer against treasure hunt and claim jump.

[Griffsnog]

I would say no and no.

1. the shafted marker only comes into effect when a model ends its activation, not movement.

2. It says that the model removes one shafted marker and flips to see the result, not all.

ISince the answer is no I guess? I can see them being used with the hanged or belles to trap models into being forced to move through the shafts.

[gregdorf]

That is really not going to work the way you want it to. The forced movement caused by other models does not count as activation. The only thing I can think of that may work is casting obey and moving the model onto the shaft marker. The best way to use the shafted marker is one of a few limited ways. The best is when a model is paralyzed, from an earlier melee strike trigger. Other options are zone control or models locked in combat. You can also drop one when the model dies with hopes of getting revenge.

[Griffsnog]

I was merely suggesting one could could trap opposing figs in between two terrain pieces. You could also use them around corners to protect your crooked men from being charged. You could also lure them into close combat in such a way as to shaft them if they do not escape the close combat by the end of their activation. The ressurectionists have alot of spells that can screw up your opponents planning especially if you are throwing out mine shafts. They seem like a very good tool to control your opponents moves and peel single models out of their crews to chew up one at a time.

[Q'iq'el]

I think if you are of a mindset that the Shafted should be easier to cast on the opponent, you should take another look at how devastating it is.

- For most crews death is irreversible, even if it will be a rare occurrence.

- Being Paralyzed in Malifaux, even once, leads to lost games. Especially on important models. To lose one turn means not getting to objectives in time. Ressurectionists are generally a bit slower - being able to cast area denial spell with effective range 8" means you can deny your opponent a chance to outrun you and perhaps even catch him and kill him next turn.

- -3Dg is possibly the less devastating of the outcomes, but for the ht1 runners most crews use to quickly grab counters and objectives, it's equivalent of death. They often have 3~5 health points total. Sure, you can try to get a bigger model ahead and remove the counter for your runner, but you lose speed and you risk your expensive model.

In other words, a Shafted area is not a mere risk for your opponent. It's a place you don't enter that turn and instead go to deal with Crooked Men - which, by the way, you have to do personally because they are quite resistant to most forms of ranged attacks... and if they are in Nicodem's crew, they are sitting at DF8 against them.

One thing I'm not sure of: Do Shafted counters work against own models too? I'm under impression they do, but I'd rather see it confirmed.

[Placidemu]

The way I've used them in the past is to bring them into play with Nicodem instead of paying for them. Then Rigor Mortis the model you want to get hit... Then cast shafted near them... that way when they activate they really can't do much. But yeah... I personally like them as a ranged option...

[Peterdita]

You can also drop one when the model dies with hopes of getting revenge.

How the hell did I not even think of using slow to die to drop a counter? Nice... It drops before the attacking model finishes its activation so its the last AP and you fall thats a nasty take you with me play, I like it!

One thing I'm not sure of: Do Shafted counters work against own models too? I'm under impression they do, but I'd rather see it confirmed.

The spell says

"Crooked man models are immune to Shafted markers"

So I've been playing friendly fire "on". If two Res crews are fighting I would also say either sides crooked men would never activate the others Shafted counters.

but yeah an officail ruling would be nice.