Companion:Family Question

[malki]

Hi all,

I am really sorry if this is an obvious question, but I've read the rules (maybe I'm misinterpreting them?) and can't seem to find anything in the FAQ, but I have a question about how the companion rule works with the Ortegas - do they all get to activate at the same time as they are "family"?

It seems strange to me considering the model by model rule for the game, any help/advice really appreciated!

Thanks

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

It does indeed.

You first Declare all the models you want to have activate under Companion.

Then you measure the range. (6")

Then you decide which of the declared models goes first, complete all actions with it, then move on to the next one.

[malki]

Awesome - thank you. That has given me many a crazy idea for my fledgling crew!

Thanks again for the amazingly quick response - I've only been playing for a month or so, and am spreading the word about the 'faux as quick as I can.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Keep the faith good sir, and welcome to Malifaux!

[nightgaunt98c]

That ability to string together activations has been a game breaker for me on a couple occasions. It's especially good when you need to kill a single model, but need multiple models to do the job. Two or three Ortegas can take down most masters if you can go first.

[Aldyhide]

Yes, family, and companion are amazing abilities if you know which model to activate first. I activate Sybelle and I'm pretty much done my activation.

[Prime]

Then you measure the range. (6")

Does this mean they all must be with in 6" of each other or that they just have to be with in 6" of one of the ones they are companioning with? I believe it is the first one, just want to make sure.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

6" of each other.

[nilus]

Does this mean they all must be with in 6" of each other or that they just have to be with in 6" of one of the ones they are companioning with? I believe it is the first one, just want to make sure.

The 2nd one. Each model activating just needs to be within 6" of another model with the correct trait and companion. This means you could have a chain of activating Ortegas that stretches 24" across the board if you so desired.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

What nilus said.

[Prime]

The 2nd one. Each model activating just needs to be within 6" of another model with the correct trait and companion. This means you could have a chain of activating Ortegas that stretches 24" across the board if you so desired.

Thanks for quick the answer and man that is nuts!!! I def. see the advantage of using it as a deny activation tactic. Quite a nice way to make your opponent burn through his good cards just trying to keep his models alive if you win the initiative flip and you have a few decent flips. lol

[Hatchethead]

It's bananas. My buddy plays Ortegas and uses his simultaneous activation to great effect. The one thing you want to keep in mind is, it's not always ideal to activate the entire Family. If you want to combo attacks or otherwise have a specific plan that requires simultaneous action, the option is there. Beyond that, activating your entire crew at the same time allows your opponent to react at his leisure, knowing your only response until closing phase is likely to be a quick draw. It's also nice that the Ortegas must remain within 6" of each other to take advantage, it restricts their movement options somewhat ... or at least keeps Perdita on a chain.

[Gremlin Swarm]

Excellent point.

Players should also remember that since the entire Ortega crew has companion (family), it's possible to activate them in 'volleys'.

All sorts of interesting tactics to play with there.

[Prime]

The 2nd one. Each model activating just needs to be within 6" of another model with the correct trait and companion. This means you could have a chain of activating Ortegas that stretches 24" across the board if you so desired.

After reading the errata I have to disagree with this. The errata reads,

Companion

Replace description with “When activating this model, if it is

within 6” of (model), this model and any number of other

friendly (model) within 6” may receive Simultaneous

Activation. Complete this model’s activation before continuing

to the other model(s’) activation(s). A model may receive

Companion (model) during the course of another model’s activation. In this case the model receiving Companion (model) activates immediately following the end of the other (model’s) activation as per Simultaneous Activation.”

From the errata would it not mean that all models must be with in 6" of the model declaring the companion (model), in this case companion family, to get the effect? Any model more than 6" would be outside the area of effect for companion family to take effect.

example: I activate a model with the companion family ability. I use that ability. I measure from him to see which models would qualify for the companion family benefit. If 3 other models are with in 6" of him, they receive it. If 2 models are with in 6.1+" away from him they do not.

This makes much more sense to me than the "conga line of death" scenario. Under the description in the rule book I could see it working to allow the congo line, but under the errata I don't think it would work that way.

My $0.02 and how I read it.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Prime

[Ciaran]

There's a difference between models that HAVE companion (or Family) and those that are granted it during another model's activation.

Example: The Ortegas all are Family (meaning they are companion to one another). They can thus all activate as long as I announce that they are AND they form a chain of less than six inch increments between models.

Example: Lilith when using Brood Mother (0 cost ability) GRANTS Companion (Lilith) to one friendly Nephilim within six inches.

The second is a working example of what your argument is based on.

[Prime]

There's a difference between models that HAVE companion (or Family) and those that are granted it during another model's activation.

Example: The Ortegas all are Family (meaning they are companion to one another). They can thus all activate as long as I announce that they are AND they form a chain of less than six inch increments between models.

Can you give the page number in the book or errata for this rule. I have looked through the rule book and errata and can not find this explanation. The only one I can find is the one below that states that models MUST be with in 6" of the activated model to receive the benefit of companion.

When activating this model, if it is within 6” of (model), this model and any number of other friendly (model) within 6” may receive Simultaneous Activation.

Maybe I have just overlooked it. In the Rule Book under companion, yes I see it working the way you describe, the problem being that the errata replaces the description in the rule book.

Sorry if it seems like I am being a stickler for this, but I need to see it in black and white before I can swallow that it allows the congo line. It comes from too many years of playing Warhammer 40K in a tournament environment. I need to see it in RAW instead of RAI. I need to see it in writing where it gives the (family) the exception to work out side of the rules as written.

One way it would work as written is once you activate the first model and declare that you are using companion you measure and give the benefit to all models with in range, "6" of activated model". Any models outside that range would not have the benefit of family, but if a model is out side of the 6" range, but with in 6" of a model with companion family that is currently under the benefit of of it, then that model could then use the companion ability on it's activation to give companion to that model and any others within range. The downside is that in a tournament you would have to make sure you remembered to state you were doing this or you opponent might remember that you did not.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Prime

[Ciaran]

It's the errata version. Playing RAW allows the chain to work. Look at it like this:

Model A is five inches from B who is five inches from C who is five inches from D. They're all Family. I decide to activate A and look for whomever is in range for Family. I then decide to activate B and look for whomever is in range of Family. I then decide to activate C and look whomever is in range of Family. I then decide to activate D since he's Papa Loco and I want him more than six inches from ANYONE else in my crew.

I then announce that I'm activating all four of them. This works because they activate at the SAME time, hence triggering Companion-Family at the SAME time. A couple of things to keep in mind are: They activate simultaneously, and their activations have to be announced at the same time. At that point their activations can be worked out in any order the player chooses.

Your last paragraph was close to how it works. The difference is that they don't have to have Companion given to them or activated. The trait is integral to the model and is always active. The player chooses to NOT activate it if they are within range.

If it were a special ability that granted Companion it may or may not work that way. I imagine that IF each of the models activated in turn had the ability to make someone else a Companion to them it could, in theory. The player with that crew wouldn't have to announce their activations all together as it's an ability that has to be activated independently.

[Prime]

Cool deal, thanks for the explaination, that one makes sense. Thanks again:)

Edited May 23, 2010 by Prime

[Ciaran]

Any time! I'm an Ortega player and I need to know this. Actually, explaining it to you has helped me figure out how to explain it to my opponents.

[Prime]

I understand that, because it does seem rather broken since it defeats the purpose of initiative for NO cost, not even a (0). If it would confine them to the 6" from activated model, like the errata states for companion, instead of half the board it would seem inline with the game, but as is it seems to be too much of an advantage to an already powerful crew or any crew for that matter.

[Q'iq'el]

I understand that, because it does seem rather broken since it defeats the purpose of initiative for NO cost, not even a (0). If it would confine them to the 6" from activated model, like the errata states for companion, instead of half the board it would seem inline with the game, but as is it seems to be too much of an advantage to an already powerful crew or any crew for that matter.

Oh, that is an impression that's easy to get at the beginning I think.

There's an IMMENSE benefit from being the last to activate in the turn and if your opponent gives your entire team a chance to do that, it's even better.

Consider, that as an Ortega's opponent you can move in response and you won't get countered until the next turn (where you still may get to move some of your models first).

You can focus your entire crew on the weakest link of their chain and they won't have any option to counter it.

They will spend their hand on their attacks but will also have to save some cards in anticipation of your counter strike. You can spend all the cards and all the soulstones you feel you need, because you know you'll get fresh set before the Ortegas move again.

etc. etc.

Sure, activating your whole team is a strong move. It's great, when you have your objective in aims and you want to grab it and secure it. However, you give just as much advantage to your opponent to respond to your action - not with just one model, but with his entire team and control hand.

My limited experience tells me after just few games Ortega players stop activating entire family, and instead use the Talent to activate 2-3 models. Still better than most crews get, but more manageable on one hand, and leaving them open options on the other.

[Ciaran]

Yeah, agreed. I don't think I've activated all of them at the same time more than... once.

Right afterward I had my @$$ handed to me by the surviving enemy models. There would have to be a BIG potential for gain for me to even consider it now.

Were I playing my Ortegas against someone else playing them as well I would like them to activate the entire Family at the same time so I could mop up at my leisure....

[Kharnac]

quick question to follow on from this; would i be right in saying that since Perdita does not herself have companion, but does have family, that if she is involved the companion chain, then she must activate first?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

quick question to follow on from this; would i be right in saying that since Perdita does not herself have companion, but does have family, that if she is involved the companion chain, then she must activate first?

No.

She would be part of the "Declared Group".

In addition, she has Companion (Family) now.

[Ciaran]

That's been the ONE sticking point playing her.

Thanks WS! I hope my explanation was solid...

I get nervous about trying to present something when the rules marshals are around...