Evil Homer Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I didn't want to hijack the White Wash City thread so....what are everyone's feelings on paper terrain as it relates to actually playing the game? Do you miss the 3 dimensional terrain one normally plays with? How do find the flat terrain affects LOS and other issues? I've never used it but the World Works city/sewer/canal stuff looks really really nice and I was wondering what people experiences are with the paper stuff before I take the jump. thanks EH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 The paper stuff that's put out y those companies is 3D. It just is made out of paper. Soe cutting, glue and you're set to go. It's not too bad actually. VERY helpful for games that require a lot of terrain like Infinity. And for city scape stuff like Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp_mydog Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 It's also helpful to use as templates. It's really cheap for most of it and you can scale it how you want. I still prefer to have things that are substantial so I will print them out scaled how I need and then cut the pieces out of foamcore and detail them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 World Works and Fat Dragon make 3-D terrain. Personally as someone of limited terrain building skills I love it. They look nice and a sturdy. And you don't feel so bad if one gets ruined. Watch out for spilled drinks though. As far as 2-D paper terrain. It's great for pickup games or for special tournament terrain. It works and it does it job but its not as pretty. The trick with 2-d terrain is to kinda decide what effects it has before you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltheos Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I love both. There's something quite visceral about having a well-detailed 3D terrain board to go with your miniatures. But, I don't have the time/skill/storage space for that. Paper terrain takes less time to assemble/paint (hehe)/etc. I'm a big fan of 2d template terrain (if it's well done, see SkeletonKey Ed's stuff) if only for its ease of portability, well-defined borders, and consistency for things like tournaments. It's easy to set up something 2d as a hill/ruin/wall/etc. So is there a preference on this side? Not really. I love them both, but have the time and space for paper terrain (especially this newer stuff that folds up) than permanent 3d these days, but would kill for a hobby room with shelves of good 3d stuff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draykin Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Im with ya on the space constraints Kel! I would kill for a big room like the one I had at my parents house. Be that as it may though I also have 3d and 2d tables. I love the tiles I got from Rakham back in the days they made Cadwallen. They look fantastic and can fill a 4x4 table. It s even easy to tell what terrain should have what effect. As for the 3d stuff I still have the original plastic and card buildings from Necromunda and Mordheim. But, for REAL sability I now make Hurst Arts buildings. Like Lego for adults you cant beat concreat for strength in your terrain! LOL:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugKing Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Heh. I have space, skill and a willingness to build 3D. I just don't own any! I'm seriously thinking about changing that though. Another 3x3 table quick like. A two weekend project most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draykin Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yeah well...we all know about you TBK!...:mad: If I had half your skill I would own a ton and sell it! LOL ...That beeing said I hope Im not jinxing myself by saying that Ihave plans on the way to make a table just for Nicodem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commandersputnik Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hmmm... Since I own a Proxxon Thermocut (http://www.proxxon.com/us/) I've cut through a few cubicmetres styrofoam but haven't spent a single thought on paper terrain ... it just doesn't look real compared to a scratch built piece, and the Thermocut is really easy to handle; a few blocks of thick foam, some artist mediums (Lascaux!!!), balsa wood and your victorian town quarter is already halfway built All you really need is a cheap source for the styrofoam, cause the thick sheets (5") are a bit expensive... P.S.: I'm already in planning mode - post a few pics asap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 See I feel that good 3D builds in Cardstock almost out do a lot of the scratch built stuff - esp. when you finish the builds (cardstock ones) with static grass, sands/rubble. I walked into a GW store to pick up something (which I didn't buy once I realised the price) and had a ganda at the tables - to me they looked flat and boring (yes I know it was GW and Flat&Boring go hand in hand) - I mean that this is a company that makes sure that they have tables with terrain painted up. To me a fully textured build out of cardstock usually convays a deeper meaning than anything 80% can build. My two cents Lord Abaddon of Wormwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealios Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Ive been sorely tempted of late to get into 3D Paper Terrain. I think the name has turned me off in the past, but looking at WorldWork's video, I am biting my hand in order to stop myself from doing it... I make my own terrain, and some of it is done and looks nice, but others in my collection are just languishing half-done...and may remain in that state for some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnage4u Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 im going to use some of the world works terain, but only in limited use. The new city pieces are great, and I can base an entire board using their No grid tiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyseerco Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Just some tips on 3D terrain, First, World Works makes amazing stuff, but know that they are in between scales right now. The new Himmelvile stuff is 6"x6" tile based, where as the old stuff was 7"x7" so keep an eye on that. Second, while 110lb paper stock is very sturdy, there are ways to make your terrain even more sturdy (to protect your work and investment in ink last a bit longer). While you will hear lots of recommendations about using Foam Core Board to strengthen your terrain, I found it eats up too much interior space and is not very clean to work with (lots of foam stuff all over). I suggest you look into getting 1/16" (14 ply) Black Mounting Boards/Matts. DikBlick of course carries it, do a look up for Bainbridge Super Black 100 Mounting Board. This stuff is just as strong as Foam Core, just as light, and its only 1/16 of inch thick, so if you get into the paper terrain with interiors, you do not have such a hassel adjusting the layout to accomodate the much thicker Foam Core. Now with that said, the new himmelville stuff is designed for Foam Core use, especially for the street tiles. I am definately going to be picking uo the White Wash city soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetang22 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 All this talk of paper terrain recently has got me inspired. That...and I just finished watching Alice in Wonderland, which in my opinion has got a great Malifaux feel to it. While watching and seeing a castle made of playing cards for the Queen of Hearts, I thought it will be interesting to see if there are any plans on the internet for a card castle that would be roughly to scale with that of the miniatures. If so, it could make a fun gaming piece that fits the flavor too. I imagine Pandora would fit well in that theme. On top of that all...if it were made almost entirely from cards, it would probably be very affordable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draykin Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I think if you check out Miyuki-chan in Wonderland some of the stuff in there would be even better for Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Khan Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 All this talk of paper terrain recently has got me inspired. That...and I just finished watching Alice in Wonderland, which in my opinion has got a great Malifaux feel to it. While watching and seeing a castle made of playing cards for the Queen of Hearts, I thought it will be interesting to see if there are any plans on the internet for a card castle that would be roughly to scale with that of the miniatures. If so, it could make a fun gaming piece that fits the flavor too. I imagine Pandora would fit well in that theme. On top of that all...if it were made almost entirely from cards, it would probably be very affordable too. Funny you should mention that... I had been giving thought to doing some conversions and making an "Alice in Wonderland" themed Pandora crew... maybe similar to American Mcgee's version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltheos Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Greyseer, how does the Bainbridge differ from Gatorboard? Is it so much more rigid? I have a Sterling Art near me, I'll see if they carry the Bainbridge stuff. I'm delving into the WWG Himmelville Streets. The base flooring looks pretty spot on for The City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyseerco Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Greyseer, how does the Bainbridge differ from Gatorboard? Is it so much more rigid? I have a Sterling Art near me, I'll see if they carry the Bainbridge stuff. I'm delving into the WWG Himmelville Streets. The base flooring looks pretty spot on for The City. Well first and foremost, most gatorboard is 3/16 of an inch thick where as the Mounting Boards are 1/16" thick (if you go 14 ply), now if you make buildings with interiors if you go with the thinnest gatorboard I have found you are giving up an extra 1/4 per dimmension vs using matboard. So while gatorboard is thinner than Foam Core and The other thing I look at is price sq. Inch. 15x20 @ $2.09 = 2.09/300 = 0.6cents/square inch. Gatorboard for 48x96 @ $66.00 = 66.00/4608 = 1.4 cents/square inch so roughly double the price. Now I am sure you can find both for cheaper, I just pulled out my DickBlick catalog and did a quick search on Gatorboard prices. Now with all that said, my only encounter with Gatorboard was in passing, and I believe it is great stuff for bases, heck it is made with wood and high density foam so of course it is going to be tough. Tough also to cut and tough on my blades. The Mat board is the same stuff your fancy pictures get mounted on when framed. So I would say the Mat will not be as rigid as the Gatorboard, at least not at 14 ply. But the buildings I have made with it have stood up to some storage and banging around, and I have made some rather large models with it and it seems to be holding up well and the glue I use, well since it is paper on paper works rather well, I would be worried about gluing the paper onto the wooden shell of the Gatorboard and seeing if it will still be stuck there later on. So I know I am rambling, but I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdorf Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I have to make some corrections here, the retail side of my company sells both gator and foam core and there is a great difference in price and quality of material. I sell 4' x 8' sheets and the retail price is around $14 for foam core and $80 for gator, that is only a 30% markup. The biggest difference between the two materials is Gator is much harder to cut and foam core can warp with humidity. If you are using a dull blade the foam can be pulled out of both materials as you cut. My suggestion is not to try to cut through the entire board with the first cut, and replace the blade the second it feels like the blade is snagging on something. I personally would not use gator board, it is way to costly and it does not offer much for this type of use. Because of it being smaller pieces for this latest world works stuff I think you would be perfectly fine with foam core. If you want to make the wall more sturdy I would suggest using PVC, it is 1/8th inch thick and about $30 for a 4' x 8'. Also it was mentioned to use 110lb paper earlier, it is a very thick paper, but it tends to crack when it is scored and folded. 80lb and index weight paper is not as thick, but it folds much better and does not break as easy at those folds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supervike Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I really want to make my 'own' scratchbuilt scenery as well. Just because it sounds fun. But, I have bought several of the models from the Worldworks, and just have to say it is outstanding stuff! They price has a relatively cheap buy in....(provided you can get color ink at a decent price, and your printer is good) But for 15 dollars, and about 6 dollars of cardstock, you'll be busy for months printing, gluing and making your own stuff (it can be a hobby within itself!) The great thing about paper terrain is that even though it takes time and effort to build, there is no big loss if you squash it, or tear it....Just make another! The paper is surprisingly sturdy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyseerco Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I Also it was mentioned to use 110lb paper earlier, it is a very thick paper, but it tends to crack when it is scored and folded. 80lb and index weight paper is not as thick, but it folds much better and does not break as easy at those folds. World works recommends the 80lb paper stock as well, but I have a huge pile of 110 from when that was the recommended standard a while ago (I am talking years), so until I burn though it, I have not had this "cracking" issue, but I am sure it is a very good reason why 80lb is now the recommended reason. I have not heard of using PVC. Is this the same stuff that the model railroaders buy in the small sheets (I am forgetting the brand name but with a green and white logo). I take it a hardware store would stock in larger sheets since all I have seen in that plastic is small sheets. Now I was not recommending the use of Foam Core, I think its horrible stuff, it warps, its thick (thus robbing interior space), and it makes a horrible mess unless you spend to have special tools (Rabbit cutter is a key one if you stay the foam core path). I have found by switching to the same Matt board they use for framing pictures, I have not had any warping problems, it cuts cleanly and is still very sturdy. And while still more expensive then foam core as price/inch. The Matt Board I think is still the superior product, for now, as I am sure science will prove me wrong. But your advice about having a fresh blade is so true when dealing with foam core, and if you are doing World Works new terrain linx, which relies heavily on foam core, what was said is so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregdorf Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I have not heard of using PVC. Is this the same stuff that the model railroaders buy in the small sheets (I am forgetting the brand name but with a green and white logo). I take it a hardware store would stock in larger sheets since all I have seen in that plastic is small sheets. Not sure what the railroaders are using, but this is basically the same material that is used in plumbing, just in sheet form. You should be able to get it from any arthouse or sign shop. You may be able to get it from a plastics company, but they tend to be wholesale only. PVC cuts a little easier then gator board, but not much, and it is best to have a sturdy box knife and a good heavy edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Homer Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 I think he is talking about foamed PVC, like Sintra. Antenocciti (spelling...) uses it alot over on the Infinity boards for making buildings. It comes in sheets as large a 4x8 and various thicknesses and colors. There is a thickness equivalent to foamcore. It cuts clean with a fresh blade using a multiple pass method. Is sandable and drillable, and glues with superglue (might even work the plastic cement). Interesting stuff but definitely not cheap, especially for large sheets. EH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkdymnd Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 We'll be building the new Worldwords set this week. We're starting with the Sewer set as my buddy plays Ramos and it's a good fit thematically for him. And then we'll get the Streets set up and running and the Canals when they release. I really think this set is the one paper terrain set that really captures the Malifaux feel in a good way. And the new modular system they have set up is incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draykin Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 How about posting some photos when you are done so we can see how it looks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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