Tactica: Pandora

[Iron Man]

i realised my problem i wasnt treating spells i cast as wp duels, therefore not hitting my opponent with as many wounds as i should have been. saying that it was my first game and my first turn i forgot to add my CA to my casting, and both me and my opponent didnt figure out resisting the casting duel till turn 5! oh well.

i will make sure i read through all the spells and abilities better before my next game and after reading through the whole of this thread ive got some good ideas up my sleeve.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

i realised my problem i wasnt treating spells i cast as wp duels, therefore not hitting my opponent with as many wounds as i should have been. saying that it was my first game and my first turn i forgot to add my CA to my casting, and both me and my opponent didnt figure out resisting the casting duel till turn 5! oh well.

i will make sure i read through all the spells and abilities better before my next game and after reading through the whole of this thread ive got some good ideas up my sleeve.

Well, you shouldn't treat Pandora's spells as Wp Duels for her. They're Simple Ca Duels. Her targets have to make Simple Wp Duels to resist. If they fail, they take a Wd.

Since her casting a spell is a Ca Duel for her, her Fading Memory Ability would not occur.

[Iron Man]

that makes sense. just got my book open in front of me. incite and pacify are wp -> wp duels, therefore if a target loses they take a wound and pandora moves 4" for free, and then you get to do it again. for free. nowhere does it say you cant target the same model again, or would that be too cheesy?

[Murphy'sLawyer]

that makes sense. just got my book open in front of me. incite and pacify are wp -> wp duels, therefore if a target loses they take a wound and pandora moves 4" for free, and then you get to do it again. for free. nowhere does it say you cant target the same model again, or would that be too cheesy?

Read the errata. It states that you can not target a model that has already been incited or pacified that turn.

Make that the Extra Errata.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Murphy'sLawyer

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

that makes sense. just got my book open in front of me. incite and pacify are wp -> wp duels, therefore if a target loses they take a wound and pandora moves 4" for free, and then you get to do it again. for free. nowhere does it say you cant target the same model again, or would that be too cheesy?

(0) Incite: Target model unaffected by Incite or Pacify within 12” performs a Wp->Wp Duel with this model.

Underlined why you can't keep doing it to the same model.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

WEiRD sKeTCH your fast. Got a little Perdita in you?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

WEiRD sKeTCH your fast. Got a little Perdita in you?

I have the ability known as (+over 9000) Supa Fast.

Edited April 21, 2010 by WEiRD sKeTCH

[Iron Man]

cool thanks for the clarification. Even if it was legal i wouldnt have done it anyway. sometimes all the little rules in this make make it very very complicated. never before has wording been so important than magic the gathering, and even then it didnt have as much to deal with as malifaux!

[darkphantomz]

So, what does everything think of this list?

I've tried out the babies a couple times now, and every time I'm underwhelmed for their point cost, so instead a heavy hitter.

30SS

Pandora

Sorrow x3

Mature Nephilim

Candy

[Omadon]

The mature is pointless with her - she can't broodmother it, and it doesn't have as high a terrifying as Teddy. Only real advantage is Diving Attack. Project Emotions with Teddy lets you almost garantee a severe on his teeth, if you put the - on defence, especially so if you trigger mental anguish on them, or if you put it on a model's WP, and then shove teddy in it's face - it's got to contend with his terrifying 13 annd a -flip, which means it's more than likley going to run, and then get held in combat with Teddy for him to devour next turn.

Although that does leave you a wasted SS. Hmm. Not sure what to do about that. I definetly think that Teddy is far superior for pandora, but wasting SS is baadd.

[Joona]

I'm not that fond of Candy. I tend to use Teddy and Kade as they are a nice combo. The damage output is rather amazing if someone decides to attack Kade and doesn't kill him. It might just be me liking the models though

Of course Candy has her uses too if Teddy or Pandy need healing. It's just that people will usually know that you really have to beat Teddy down when you start beating him or he'll soon be back in perfect health again. With the current rules it's also quite hard to give Sours to the enemy models as she'll lose harmless unless she just walks around. No healing or running away home etc. allowed.

Of course if you drop off one of you Sorrows you can have both the kids and the bear in 30SS and plenty of stones too. And Pandora likes to have a lot.

Yesterday I was playing:

Pandora

Primordial Magic

Teddy

Kade

Sorrow

Sorrow

Terror Tot

Terror Tot

29SS/30SS, 6SS cache

It worked quite well. I took the Terror Tots because my opponent had Claim Jump and Sorrows don't help much there as I'd rather not use the almost too cheesy Sorrow Train to kill everything (not that I had more than three Sorrows anyway). The Terror Tots can run around like no tomorrow if you have small unneeded masks in your hand. And there's always the potential of taking down something (a totem, another lone cheap model) and growing up. And generally, they can kill almost anything if they can pull off the Flay trigger.

I also noticed that the Pandora crew is quite :crows intensive in the end. Kade wants them for Sweetbreads, Pandora wants them for Mental Anguish and Sorrows want them for Melancholy.

[Rathnard]

I think Kade and Teddy are important to have available if only because they're your Plan B.

Occasionally parts of your opponents crew will be very resiliant to Pandy's Wp duels. In such times you can activate Plan B (cue dramatic music!) and send in the Kade/Teddy tag team to smash face the old-fashioned way.

Their synergy with Pandora and each other make them a logical choice over, say, a Mature Nephilim.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Rathnard

[renbot]

Hi! Just wondering but when an enemy model tries to attack, lets say Kade or Candy, and they have to do the Wp -> 12 for harmless..is it considered a willpower duel? And if so, if they're within range of Pandora, would the enemy figure take 1 wound if they lost?

[Rathnard]

Hi! Just wondering but when an enemy model tries to attack, lets say Kade or Candy, and they have to do the Wp -> 12 for harmless..is it considered a willpower duel? And if so, if they're within range of Pandora, would the enemy figure take 1 wound if they lost?

Yes!

[Krysno]

Has anyone used the Doppelganger to mimic Pandora's "Use Soulstones" ability? I haven't had a chance to try it just yet, but it seems like it could increase the utility of the Doppelganger even further...

Edited June 25, 2010 by Fivepipe
rephrase for clarity

[Lars de Grey]

Has anyone used the Doppelganger to mimic Pandora's "Use Soulstones" ability? I haven't had a chance to try it just yet, but it seems like it could increase the utility of the Doppelganger even further...

I would not advice to do so! You can mimic two times in one activation. And since the Doppelganger has just harmless and a lousy Df, i would prefer to mimic e.g. Baby Kades Df 7, Teddy´s hard to wound 2 or his regeneration 2.

But i got a question too!

When talking about a totem for pandora, most player recommend the poltergeist or primordial magic.

But what about the cherub? Ok, he can´t become a companion, but i think he got decent stats. I like his love spell and his trigger too.

The poltergeist has a slightly better Df, but because of it´s spells he needs to be up front. And his Ca is not as good as the cherub´s.

The primordial magic is a good caster support but lousy at defense or protecting itself.

So, what do you think of a cherub as totem for Pandora? Or did i miss a rule, that she can´t pick him?

[ddot]

Per Errata, a Totem specifically naming a model in parenthesis can only be hired by that model. Thus, only Lilith can hire the Cherub.

A shame, because the Cherub would work nicely with Pandi.

Given that you could mimic spells, mimicing Use Soulstones might be useful in the right situation.Doppel gains a (1) Spell for the turn, so she could cast the same spell twice and use SS to up the casting total if the situation calls for it. (Self-Loathing jumps out in a Pandi crew.) One thing that i think makes it useful... if you need Crows to cast, don't get it, but have a lowish Crow in your hand, cheat the lowish Crow and SS to up the casting total.

Edited July 31, 2010 by ddot

[Lars de Grey]

And what about the student of conflict?

He would be quite expensive and it seems tricky to get a spell off.

But his assist action could come in handy and his combined efforts, would be a great trick on Sorrows for reconnoiter.

Since the Doppelganger and Teddy are quite expansive, he might be an option if you got 4 soulstones left to spend.

What do you think?

[Krysno]

Good observation, Lars de Grey. I thought about the student of conflict, too, for the very reasons you've given. His (all) Assist ability could be very useful for filling gaps as they become evident in a match. Giving any one of Pandora's typical minions [or Pandora herself] an extra action would be great fun in the right circumstance.

My concern with the Student of Conflict is that his WK is only 4, and the Assist ability takes all of his actions. This could leave him behind and out of range to make himself useful once he starts using it. My guess is that you might get to use his Assist ability twice during the course of a typical game unless you diverted other resources to keeping him close [such as waiting for him with the other minions, or luring him along with Baby Kade]. If you start to divert other resources to keeping him in the fight, then the Student of Conflict isn't making anyone fast, he's just redirecting your action points from one model to another.

I haven't tried the Student of Conflict yet. This is all speculation, so I'd love to hear from others who have tried him and can reflect on their observations. It would be pretty handy indeed to have any surviving Sorrows within 6" of the Student of Conflict count toward victory conditions with Combined Efforts. I think that the key to this totem is placement, positioning, and timing [i.e. : "wait for it......"]

[Krysno]

Here's a Pandora surprise for the day:

I got trounced in a tournament today, but had such fun that I wouldn't have had it any other way. The Pandora surprise came during the third of three games. I was up against Perdita with Nino, The Judge, a Deathmarshal, Convict Gunslinger, and an Executioner.

While trying to close the distance to my opponent, I lost Teddy [Trigger Happy Nino], Baby Kade, Candy, and a Ronin. This left Pandora all on her own, and though I had "killed" the Executioner once, his Slow To Die action that destroyed Candy gave him full life once again.

I thought that I had nothing left to say but Pandora took over for me and single-handedly terrified the Executioner, killed him after he fled, damaged The Judge and a Deathmarshal with Pacify to push toward Nino, forced Nino into falling back, killed Nino, forced the Convict Gunslinger into falling back, then Killed the Convict Gunslinger.

In the end Perdita shot Pandora to death, but I was so impressed with Pandora's performance that my loss went almost unnoticed [by me].

This game supported my thought that Pandora is not a back-line support master. Pandora does well when she's right out front. You have to put faith in her Expose Fears talent, and rely on it. I think that if you push the Sorrows into your targets, and pressure those targets with Pandora, you're headed in the right direction. Keep the other minions for the second wave; the clean-up and heal-up component.

I didn't use Project Emotions at all during that last encounter. Instead, I used Trapped In Your Own Nightmare on the Executioner, and Pandora's Mental Anguish trigger. I love them both.

I am no master tactician. These are just some of the thoughts mulling around in my mind. What do you Pandora players think? She's a tricky one but that's the appeal, no?

[ddot]

Perdita's a really bad match up for Pandi on a 1-on-1 basis, as she ignores Expose Fears and is a beast with her guns... a problem exacerbated by Pandi's non-existent Df and low-Wd total. Once Perdita is in range with LOS (and even without it), Pandi needs at least one Martyr target.

Other than that, your description of game three is a typical Pandi game in my experience, where she will literally take over her 12" bubble of influence.

[Otaku8]

Hey all! I just have a quick question to do with Pandora. Most of the games I've been facing of late is against a Ramos force with his constructs. And my opponent is adament that Pandora's "The box opens" does not remove a constructs immunity to moral duals.

He claims that Pandora's ability targets WP duals not Moral duals, and how can a machine feel scared.

He also commented how can a machine be poisoned when Candy wacked a arachnid, but thankfully he let that one go.

So, what I'm asking is does Pandora's ability remove construct, undead, etc. immunities to Moral duals?

[Koali]

Yes it does... Moral Duels are Duells using WP... so all Morale Duels are also WP Duells. Vice Versa its not: Not all WP Duells are Morale Duels...

And the Poisond Question... Thats a bad joke of your Opponent... who says that constructs are immune to Poison?

if hes saying such the next time ... say that Candy uses special acid as poison for the constructs...

[karn987]

Yes it does... Moral Duels are Duells using WP... so all Morale Duels are also WP Duells. Vice Versa its not: Not all WP Duells are Morale Duels...

And the Poisond Question... Thats a bad joke of your Opponent... who says that constructs are immune to Poison?

if hes saying such the next time ... say that Candy uses special acid as poison for the constructs...

Couldn't have said it better =D

[AvatarForm]

Overall a very good thread. However, some of the first pages are no obsolete due to the Link cuddle and other changes in the errata.