@#$!@#$@% I got a ticket ...

[Nathan Caroland]

I tell you what, I'm ready to just 'spit' when it comes to the law enforcement around here somedays.

I got a ticket for 'running' a stop sign and for not having my seat belt on and the female officer (it doesn't make a difference on the sex of the lady, just .. grrr) was less than friendly. First and foremost, I didn't run the damn stop sign. I HAD to stop, there was a vehicle coming and I sure as hell wasn't going to run out in front of it. It wasn't a long stop, but my wheels sure as hell weren't turning.

Then she got me for not having a seatbelt, when I took the damn thing off to get to my wallet. I suppose I could have waited for her to come up to the damn window, but no, I figure, be friendly, get your license, get your registration, smile and ask what you did wrong. Uh-huh - she cites me for not having a seatbelt on.

At this point I'm about to jump out of the car and start having a coniption fit because this lady is flat out being an ass and is meeting a quota and not giving a rats ass what I have to say. If it wasn't for the fact that my daughter was sitting in the seat beside me, I very well may have said to hell with it and ended up hauled off to jail for letting the woman know exactly where she could stuff those tickets.

So now, I have two tickets, both which are bogus, which tell me that I have to be in court on the 19th of December or loose my license (of course, its in the evening and I work, so there goes lost time). Or I can just pay the damn thing and be done with it. I of course was hoppin' pissin' mad and swore that I would go to court, only to have my neighbor tell me that I might not want to do that.

Apparently several individuals, including my neighbor, have gone in to fight a ticket, only to have the judge tell them that they are wasting the courts time by even appearing, and trippling the fines. WTF?!?! I asked around at work and this seems to be something others have experienced before.

So now, I either pay the bogus damn tickets, or I go and fight it in court, where they very well may tell me that I'm wasting their time and tripple the fine. I think its a scam of the worst frickin nature.

-

Nathan

(severely pissed off)

[EricJ]

:thumpdown

that does suck. I actually got pulled over for the first time last thursday, (not bad, I've been driving 11 years). It turns out I was speeding and ended up tailgating a unmarked Sherrif's car... (I was late for work!).

So he pulled out of the way, let me pass, watch me speed for about 2 miles then pulled me over...gave me a little lecture about how I basically forced him to do it, even though it wasn't his job. He asked for my licence, sat in his car talking on the radio for about 5 minutes, I think to make me sweat it, then walked back and told me to be on my way, and not do this again...no ticket!

So I don't have much experience to help you about deciding to go to court. How much are the tickets?!

[supervike]

I respect most of our police force, but I have maintained for sometime that writing tickets is not so much an act of punishing someone, as it is for generating revenue.

IF I was in violation, I don't even mind being pulled over and fined as I usually obey the laws, but what do you do in a case like yours Nathan? How can they justify tripling the fines for having your day in court? That sounds unethical at best, and illegal at worse. It maybe worth attending the court session just to ask those questions.

One of the little tricks they play here in Iowa is the random 'safety checks'. I haven't seen them in a few years, so maybe they have dropped it, but basically the cops set up checkpoints on a random road, and stop EVERY motorist, subjecting them to a 'safety check'. At this point they check over and your vehicle looking for violations. I've never been ticketed for anything improper, but it pisses me off to think they can subject me to that. I didn't do anything wrong, why am I being detained, questioned, and viewed as a violator?

[Nathan Caroland]

Just called the police department - $119 for the stop sign, $21 for the seatbelt for a total of $140. Not too bad, but its the frickin' principle of it that has me pissed now, plus the points on your record and insurance getting up your arse about it.

I can live with the stop sign if it comes to it, but then the throw your information to the DMV and your insurance can pick it up about the seatbelt as well and thus my insurance goes up over that BS.

Grrr.

[Nathan Caroland]

Agree with you Jim. Personally, I give police officers quite a bit of respect, I can understand how they might be on edge around people, bad things happen every day and they are the ones that deal with it for the most part.

Tickets though, that's a whole 'nother matter. It's a revenue gimmick, and they do have quota's which is even worse! Hell, I get pulled over for this (which is BS) when I do everything by the book 9 out of 10 times. I am religious about signaling, giving space to other drivers, etc. Here in Georgia though, that is a liability, because most of the people here don't even know what a damn turn signal is (really pisses me off) and are just a happy to run you off the road as not.

If there is excessive speeding, reckless driving, whatever, I think that should be stomped on. The rest of this stuff, like those safety checks you mentioned, is the product of a bored police departement going through the motions and making money for their next holday departement cookout.

Either way, I'm out money. I go to court, I have to take the day off work. I pay the ticket, I'm out cash that I shouldn't have to pay at all and top that off, might end up trippling. Believe me, if I end up in court and they up the fine, ya'll won't hear from me for a good bit because I'm liable to just let the court hear my displeasure in a loud and rather 'sensational tv' way.

[Ritual]

That sucks, Nathan!

:imsorry:

I don't know what I'd have done in your situation. I'd be tempted to take the fight for the sake of principle, but then I'd probably succumb to rational thinking and pay the damn thing.... :mad:

[EricJ]

It's true, I respect the police, and I was actually not really upset at all when they pulled me over, since I knew I was wrong. I even told the guy that, that he had to do his job, and pulling me over for driving dangerously was his job, so how could I be upset.

However, I think there should be a law again quotas in ticket giving.

[cdukino]

I had 2 speeding tickets in my life so far... both were for driving about 4-8 miles an hour to hard on a in town road (which means a ticket of about $35 each)... Basically bad luck and I didn't even do it deliberatly. But oke I was speeding.

I didn't complain there eventhough my boyfriend who drives to fast much more than me (moderate so though) never got one.

But I really wanted to twist that snotnosed police agent's neck a few months back. He didn't fine me, though he basically had the right... but he lectured me and my sister.... relentlessly. We had walked through a red stop sign at a crossover in the middle of the shoppingcenter in our town. It was absolutely deserted at that moment, no cars at all. But this little brat who wore a police hat cought us. I think he was an inturn (sp?), and his female "teacher" was with him (I swear he was younger than me). And he kept going on and on on how we were wrong and shouldn't do that and acting all stern and big (he was a tiny guy at that... and did I mention quite a bit younger?). Even after we said, yeah you are right, sorry won't do it again, yeah we told you we are sorry 3 times now, yes we know we shouldn't, yeah I saw the red light... yeah I know it means I shouldn't cross when it's red... yeah I know green means go and red doesn't... I already said I was wrong... sorry... again...and so on and so on... I stopped apologising after a bit as nothing was comming through and started thinking about my shoppinglist instead to do something usefull with the time. I was ready to beg of him to stop making us look like little dumb kids in front of his collegue and all people on the street at the top of his voice and stop doing it in such a drama supirior way... I even told him he had the right to give me the ticket now and have it done with.... He didn't give me one but kept on lecturing. I swear he embarassed the hell out of his collegue cop as well, who was looking at everyone save us and started to try and interupt the lecturing cop. Man I was ready to strangle him... but atleast it didn't cost me any money. There went 15 minutes of my life.

[Spacemunkie]

Wait until they start sticking speed cams on every corner.

You can gather a tidy sum of points on your license without even knowing!

[vincegamer]

I have never heard of a judge increasing fines if you show up in court.

First of all, usually the fine on the ticket is the maximum fine by law.

In my experience, showing up usually results in the judge reducing the fine.

Also, if you show up and the officer does not, you win. I would try to fight the ticket and apply to get the date changed. Move it to the day after Thanksgiving or something when you think the Cop will be on vacation.

Finally, if traffic school is an option to erase the ticket from your record you should definitely do that. Heck, I think everyone should go to traffic school at least once. I learned a ton of fascinating things there.

[Nathan Caroland]

I've never heard of it either, but I've been told by several people now, from different areas (neighborhood, work, etc) so obviously something must be going on. Surprises the hell out of me.

Anyhow, called today and they set it up for December 19th, won't push it up or back and its only on Mondays. Apparently I have to talk to a lawyer or something that takes care of it all, and if it doesn't get resolved that way, it goes to the judge on a Thursday. That's what I learned on the phone today anyhow.

Rather irritated about the whole thing, but I'm going to go ahead and go fight it and see what comes of it. I've done the drivers school before, didn't enjoy it one damn bit, but whatever works I suppose.

Grrr.

Oh and Cindy, I feel for you, been in a situation like that as well - didn't enjoy it one damn bit, but I ended up in cuffs because I told the cop to either do something about it or leave me the 'ef alone after ten minutes.

He did something about it.

Bugger.

[anatora]

Wait until they start sticking speed cams on every corner.

You can gather a tidy sum of points on your license without even knowing!

Actually Atlanta has those already, so, Nathan, just another thing for you to watch out for. A friend of mine got a ticket and a photo in the mail of her speeding through a red light (actually caught between caution and red). She paid the fine. It was hard to argue that that wasn't her face behind the wheel.

[Celtic Lilly]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Mr. FF. I have had a bad year with tickets too, but they were all my fault really. Five tickets in nine months.

Sheesh.

[marineboy]

Also, if you show up and the officer does not, you win.

Isn't the testimony of a police officer above what is know as "reasonable doubt"? Please correct me if I am wrong, but it was my impression that the affidavit of an officer was accepted on face value by the courts. If the officer said it was so, then the court accepts that it was so.

Which is of course bullshit, cops being just people too.

Bail out, FF. Sorry to hear your trouble, don't make a lousy situation worse.

[Leopardpixie]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Mr. FF. I have had a bad year with tickets too, but they were all my fault really. Five tickets in nine months.

Sheesh.

WOW what have you been up to?

[Nathan Caroland]

Yeah, my wife has been after me as well, basically telling me I'm not going to win a damn thing and to just pay it off. I'm half tempted to show up and just have a bitch fit and see if I can get traffic school, but if my car insurance people try and give me any trouble I'll just point out my life insurance policy, three vehicles and my house insurance is with them and if they wanna piss up the wrong tree I can take all of it somewhere else.

Grrr.

Ah well, looks like I'm out $140.

[vincegamer]

Isn't the testimony of a police officer above what is know as "reasonable doubt"? Please correct me if I am wrong, but it was my impression that the affidavit of an officer was accepted on face value by the courts. If the officer said it was so, then the court accepts that it was so.

Yes, and no.

The testimony of the officer carries more weight than your testimony because the officer is considered to be an expert on traffic laws.

However, if he isn't there, he can't give testimony.

In other words, if it's your word against his, you lose. If it's just your word, you win. You can also win with your word plus corroborating evidence against his word, if you have enough evidence.

An affidavit is a sworn statement made out of court, but to use it in court you have lots of requirements that are unlikely to be met - the cop isn't likely to hire a lawyer to explain why he can't be there and to present an affidavit.

p.s. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but the definition of coming to a stop used by police is NOT the definition we all use. I would say you stopped if your wheels stopped rolling. The police say you stop if your forward momentum stops long enough for the body of the car to rock back on its suspension.

[Nathan Caroland]

So I should go for the giggles of it and see if I get out of it?

[vincegamer]

I try not to use the word should as it implies value.

I would fight it if I believed myself in the right.

If you think a) the cost of the time off work and stress of the process plus the risk of an increased fine outweigh the benefits of a) the chance of getting out of it or having it reduced plus the benefits of taking part in the American legal system, then don't.

If you decide to go, then if at all possible, attend an earlier date just to watch how traffic court works on other people before going before the judge yourself.

[marineboy]

Yes, and no.

The testimony of the officer carries more weight than your testimony because the officer is considered to be an expert on traffic laws.

However, if he isn't there, he can't give testimony.

In other words, if it's your word against his, you lose. If it's just your word, you win. You can also win with your word plus corroborating evidence against his word, if you have enough evidence.

An affidavit is a sworn statement made out of court, but to use it in court you have lots of requirements that are unlikely to be met - the cop isn't likely to hire a lawyer to explain why he can't be there and to present an affidavit.

Hmmm, the traffic court I experienced in New Jersey wasn't playing by the rules, then. No police officers were present at the presentation of any of the cases and the testimonies of said officers were taken at face value by the court. B#&¤&(¤rds! :AR15firin

[praetorian0_1]

Cops get paid to go to court all the same as being on the street so its no big deal for them to show up. However, no cop is going to cancel their hollidays to come in to trafic court. Close to xmas, you might get luck and they're a no show. That's about your only bet to win on your own. However, you can ask the judge for a break on the fine by asking to make payments on it instead of all at once. I have seen them grant it up here.

In other words, if the cop is there, just plead out on the charge and request a payment deferal of the judge based on financial hardship (being a father of a big family, being a student, high debt load, you name it), so long as it is reasonable. He may even decide to lower the fine himself- it may be rude to ask yourself for a reduction in the cost. Just cover you ass for being there. However, go ahead and fight if the cop ain't there, then you could win. Its worth showing up to see. No matter what- kiss that judge's ass and don't piss him off lol.

Another alternative is an inexpensive lawyer/company that works based on only if you win. They are worth it if you are low on points left over on your license(otherwise screw it). They are called POINTS up here. I'm sure you have a lot of those guys in your area too, just look in the yellow pages. They usually know every play in the book.

ps... the worst ticket I got was for about $350 in one shot, ouch. The cop picked my car apart and found even crap on my license that was wrong and he could fine me. I was going 6 mph over, but the rest was the crap he could nail me with. Bad mood or what. The above was stuff a lawyer pal told me to do too after I got that one.

Godd luck anyway you slice it.

[Nathan Caroland]

Yeah, think I'm just going to end up paying this one and being done with it. Its not THAT much money but it gals the hell out of me, but between the time I would end up taking off work and dealing with this and all the other little BS I've heard about things around here, it just isn't worth it for me. I've got a spotless record, I'm guessing it could survive a ding.

Grrrr.

As for the worst ticket I ever had - heh - believe me, this is when I started thinking about karma. Picture this ...

Sixteen years old, in San Jose, CA at around 3:50pm driving my convertable pickup truck with the roof down and my best friend and running partner with me. We weren't doing anything special that I could think of but we both looked at the clock and said 'CRAP' (I edited that for the kiddies out there) because we were suppose to be somewhere at 4pm to meet up with a bunch of guys to go somewhere (where slips me after all these years). I hit the freeway at a 115 MPH, my friend standing up in the truck looking out over traffic screaming 'LEFT' 'RIGHT' 'LEFT' 'LEFT' 'SWERVE AROUND THIS GUY' ..... we made it from downtown San Jose to Southside San Francisco in a little under 15 minutes, something that is normally an easy 45-50 minute drive if you are lucky. Yeah, we thought we were hot shit, believe me. Laughed all night about it and bragged.

So the next day, I'm out with a girl and I'm talking big and impressive about what Jason and I did yesterday and was feeling damn cocky. Next thing I know, I see lights in the rear mirror - first time I've been pulled over. Crap.

Speeding 15mph over speed limit

No seatbelt for driver

No seatbelt for passenger

Expired registration sticker

No proof of insurance in the vehicle

Failure to signal

Failure to come to a complete stop at a stop sign

Needless to say I felt about an inch tall, and the girl in the car with me was laughing the whole time which didn't help one damn bit. Went home later that night and gave the tickets (plural, he filled out two of them due to all the charges) and my dad just started shaking his head and soon after had to holler at me (although as I understand it years later, he was laughing so damn hard inside he had to wait until he had himself together).

Here comes the court date, California has this new program they are trying out for teenage drivers and we go in and sit down face to face with a Judge in his office. I commence to lie my ass off with my father sitting there just looking the the ceiling and going 'yes sir, he's a very good driver'. Ended up getting everything dropped except for the speeding which got reduced to 9 mph over (odd number, but it made a large financial difference).

My father has those tickets framed and hanging on the wall at his house still and my wife loves hearing the story from him about it (and has made him promise to give her the framed tickets later in life).

Bah!

[EricJ]

What were you doing, like 120 down 280?

I had a friend who got pulled over and amassed 8 tickets and got her car impounded in one day.

On the way to work, speeding, expired plates, no seatbelt

At lunch, Running a stop sign, expired plates, no seatbelt

After work, speeding, expired plates (she learned abotut he seatbelt that time!), atlhough she was going apparently about 30 miles over the speedlimit so they arrested her for reckless driving and impounded her car...

[Nathan Caroland]

Between 112mph and a 115mph, the truck was really chuggin' when it got up a bit over those so I had to back it down. Didn't think it could do that but that little baby was haulin'.

I forget what stretch of highway that is there - is it 280? I was thinking 101 for some reason but its been eleven years since I've lived in SF and 15 years since the 'fun' above.

As for your friend .. heh, all I have to say is that I LEARNED after the first time. Heh, I can't believe she managed to do that. I would say something about women drivers, but I don't want hate mail.

[EricJ]

101 or 280 both connect SF to SJ, so it could be either, 280 is just a little faster

And don't worry about making female driver jokes...I had you covered...I think I got just about all of them in, and made up a few more the next day when I heard about the last ticket :thumb: