Counting Strategy markers

[Pallas4]

Hi

Are Strategy Markers available for rules like Entomb (Oro Boro) or Full Pack (Bayou Smuggler)? On two Discords I saw different answers. ^^
I know you can't "target" them (Gluttonny faq) but you can count them for schemes but it's not exactly the same thing...

[Hawkoon]

As long as you're not targetting the markers or otherwise doing something to them, I don't see why they wouldn't be counted.

[King of Draconis]

You can definitely use the Strat Markers for any such Schemes like Death Beds. It's totally legal to name them as the non-Scheme Marker type

[Mortarion]

This is something that I think is pretty clear in the actual rules, but because a lot more uncertain because of the Gluttony FAQ. 

"Choosing a Strategy Marker is a way of affecting it, along with targeting, moving, removing, selecting, counting, etc. No effects can affect Strategy Markers unless the effect specifies it can."

It states that "counting" a marker is considered to be affecting it.

In my opinion both Entomb and Full pack should be allowed to count a Strategy marker as it is not actually affecting the marker. But unfortunately I think that the Gluttony FAQ changes this and that no model may "count" a strategy marker. But I would be happy if anyone could prove me wrong on this.

[solkan]

The distinction which matters, as far as I can tell, is whether the effect belongs to a model.

Per the Gluttony FAQ no model effect can do anything to a strategy marker which has not been specified in the strategy.

To quote the second paragraph of Strategy Markers again:

Quote

Strategy Markers cannot be affected by the effects of models (such as moving, removing, or targeting) except by those effects which are specifically called out in the Strategy.

All the Gluttony FAQ does is take parenthetical list of examples and specify additional things, including things that a person may feel don't have an active effect.

It is permitted for a scheme do all of those things because the prohibition in the rules is on "the effects of models"--and the effects of models are defined by the actions and abilities of models.

 

[SunTsu]

But actions like Secret Passage works with strategy markers, as far as I know... 🤔

Edit: I was wrong, read below...

Edited February 29 by SunTsu
Corrections

[King of Draconis]

On 11/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, SunTsu said:

But actions like Secret Passage works with scheme markers, as far as I know... 🤔

You mean Strategy Markers, right?
But yes, I also thought it that way.
The removing, moving, choosing and targeting part is clear, the SMs cannot be the target (for some reason a model cannot even move towards or away from tartget marker if it's a SM)
But counting them? I mean that marker is just there and it's a piece of terrain (most of the times). Being placed near it, and jut taking into account that it is just there and it's a different thing than any others shouldn't be an issue. The marker goes nowhere, doesn't change in any way and it wasn't even targeted.
Other than the Entomb, the Full Pack and the Secret Passage, Sandeep, FoM's From Heaven and Earth Action has a trigger that should also use the marker's presence, The World Around Us.

[SunTsu]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:17 AM, King of Draconis said:

You mean Strategy Markers, right?
But yes, I also thought it that way.

Yes, absolutely. I meant "Strategy" but mistakenly wrote "scheme".

However after reading the Gluttony faq I saw my thoughts were wrong and @solkan was right instead: that faq clarify that a model can't do anything that involve a Strategy Marker, if it's not explicitly written in the strategy rules itself. Effects coming from Schemes and not from models should work however.