Changes for Alyce and Ashes and Dust

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

I think a lot of this speaks to a larger issue with some of the keywords.

 

With Levi, he has a keyword solid enough that I am willing to take just about everything within the keyword as I can find a use for it one way or another.  While I think Alyce is slightly underpowered (I would give her +1 move, and maybe another trigger on her gun, and/or a melee trigger to throw enemies into her pit traps, something like that), I don't think she is unusable by any means.  His team as a whole is pretty reliable and functional.

 

Then you got Mad Dog, who definitely feels like an 11/12 point model that costs 10.  Then compare him to the rest of the Bandit keyword.  Apart from Pearl, and maybe Sue, the rest of the keyword is basically mediocre at best, and is largely a heaping pile of garbage.  If you nerf Mad Dog, the Bandit keyword has what exactly?   Also remembering the the fundamental rules concerning the Bandit keyword don't really work.  Nerf Mad Dog then you just have a broken keyword, nearly through and through.  

 

Same with Lucius.  Lawyers are the best models in guild, and are just 6 stones with good ol' Lucius.  While I don't think his keyword is complete trash as he is intended to be hard to use, and can really work well if you know what you're doing, a lot of people don't see it that way.  If they nerf Lawyers he has what exactly?  Alan Reid?  Changelings?  You may as well just shelve the team at that point.  Elite/Mimic is a team mostly consisting of situational tech picks that aren't very useful outside of specialty.  When you're team is this squishy, it can be hard to overcome.  Comparing Lucius to some of the Malifaux Burns stuff feels like ocean-wide gulf of effectiveness (edit: I meant to say between Lucius 1 and the Malifaux Burns stuff... Lucy 2 is quite good)

 

Then look at Euripedes 2.  Everything on his card is stellar.  However, his team is one of the harder teams to use, and greatly benefits from the master.  Nerf Euripedes 2 and the team goes back to struggling, unless they re-evaluate the other models of the team.

 

Preferably they would nerf the stronger stuff, and buff the weaker things, but Wyrd has to work with limited time and resources.  Is there even a correct answer to this type of problem?

Edited December 15, 2022 by Brilliance Laced Whiskey
Forgot something

[Thatguy]

On 12/12/2022 at 4:10 PM, Azahul said:

I'd be surprised if he were

Looks like you were right. 

No Mad Dog nerf. No underperforming model love either.

37 minutes ago, Brilliance Laced Whiskey said:

Then you got Mad Dog, who definitely feels like an 11/12 point model that costs 10.  Then compare him to the rest of the Bandit keyword. 

This is a very good point. I feel like this is true of a lot of the best models in the game. They prop up under performing crews. Almost every crew has one or two options that are never-takes,often cheap minions. If you Nerf the best model in the keyword, without giving those models some love you're left with a crew that does very little. Things get especially complicated for models that fit in multiple keywords. Like First Mate got nerfed not because he was over-performing in Infamous but because he was an absolute monster in Swamp fiend where you can have two plus extra actions a turn.

Bandit is already in a rough spot as a crew. I play against Bandit a lot, and the crew is usually half out of keyword.

42 minutes ago, Brilliance Laced Whiskey said:

Wyrd has to work with limited time and resources.  Is there even a correct answer to this type of problem?

I think the correct answer is to devote more resources to it. They've got access to a whole lot of information via the app and tournament results. It should be pretty clear to see what models are taken disproportionately highly or never taken at all and address those models.

Recruiting beta testers is another way to get low effort feedback.

[TeddyBear]

Honestly, just a personal opinion, but I really think there are other more important issues to see before Mad Dog.

I don't think Wyrd will focus on these things, when there are currently first wave some keywords remaining on the shelf and we still have ahead of us "a year of madness and the arcanist"...he wasn't even considered...but those who have tried him, already know that something should be changed.

[Azahul]

4 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Looks like you were right. 

No Mad Dog nerf. No underperforming model love either.

Yeah, this felt like a very targeted wave of nerfs just about trimming back the excesses of titles, so I'm not surprised there wasn't scope for an uplift.

At least Parker2 plays entirely in Keyword (barring the Emissary but come on, that thing is so tailored to Bandit it's an honourary member).