Avatar of Butter Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 hours ago, kross1 said: So by that reasoning, anything that doesn't follow the progressive ideals of this society, (not the fictional society that the fictional character is part of), the Joker should be banned from Batman, for the fictional women beating of Harley Quinn, and the fictional rape of Batgirl. Murder is against our social standards, should we ban all fictional murderers too? Where does the censorship end. I mean why stop there, let's do the same thing to tv. Got to get rid of Homelander from "the Boys". Every episode of Law & Order: SVU? Maybe we should start looking at religious texts, Should we ban the bible for incest, rape, slavery and murder? What makes these (fictional) characters horrifying, are the (fictional) horrible things they do. I find Sonnia and Rasputina to be just reprehensible for the (magical) slavery, and the cannibalism, should we cancel them as well? If we follow your reasoning to it's logical conclusion we will end up playing "My little Pony, personally I won't be playing that game.... Please don't think of this as an attack on you personally, it is not. My liberal ideals, makes me hate censorship, especially speech I don't like or agree with. As an example, I despise fox news, but I don't want it silenced, because I would become what I despise. "In logic, reductio ad absurdum (Latin for "reduction to absurdity"), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin for "argument to absurdity") or apagogical arguments, is the form of argument that attempts to establish a claim by showing that the opposite scenario would lead to absurdity" -via Wikipedia I agree that Leveticus is fine the way he is, but boy are your arguments... internet-flavored. If Wyrd decided to "clean up" Malifaux, it would not be censorship (removal by external authority) or cancellation (use of mob psychology to publicly shame an individual). It's their world, and if they decide everyone is a My Little Pony in 4e, all the power to them. It wouldn't lead to the cancellation of Law & Order, and saying so is a little disingenuous. I'm on your side of this debate, but once you strip the hyperbole out of your position, I'm not really sure what your arguments are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross1 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 So by that reasoning, anything that doesn't follow the progressive ideals of this society, (not the fictional society that the fictional character is part of), the Joker should be banned from Batman, for the fictional women beating of Harley Quinn, and the fictional rape of Batgirl. Murder is against our social standards, should we ban all fictional murderers too? Where does the censorship end. I mean why stop there, let's do the same thing to tv. Got to get rid of Homelander from "the Boys". Every episode of Law & Order: SVU? Maybe we should start looking at religious texts, Should we ban the bible for incest, rape, slavery and murder? What makes these (fictional) characters horrifying, are the (fictional) horrible things they do. I find Sonnia and Rasputina to be just reprehensible for the (magical) slavery, and the cannibalism, should we cancel them as well? If we follow your reasoning to it's logical conclusion we will end up playing "My little Pony, personally I won't be playing that game.... Please don't think of this as an attack on you personally, it is not. My liberal ideals, makes me hate censorship, especially speech I don't like or agree with. As an example, I despise fox news, but I don't want it silenced, because I would become what I despise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross1 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 I did argue the topic to absurdity, though I didn't argue the opposite scenario, I just applied it to other fictional universes. I did use the words censorship and cancelled, the first time I used censorship, I did do it in a hyperbolic way, and meant too. As to cancelled, I could've said banned or "dmhed", but by your definition of cancelled would apply. As to the 2nd time I used censorship I stand by it. My point was the characters are fine, horrible people, but fine characters in a fictional universe. Don't dmh them Wyrd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im_open_to_suggestions Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 well this was a roller coaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 5 hours ago, kross1 said: So by that reasoning, anything that doesn't follow the progressive ideals of this society, (not the fictional society that the fictional character is part of), the Joker should be banned from Batman, for the fictional women beating of Harley Quinn, and the fictional rape of Batgirl. Murder is against our social standards, should we ban all fictional murderers too? Where does the censorship end. I mean why stop there, let's do the same thing to tv. Got to get rid of Homelander from "the Boys". Every episode of Law & Order: SVU? Maybe we should start looking at religious texts, Should we ban the bible for incest, rape, slavery and murder? What makes these (fictional) characters horrifying, are the (fictional) horrible things they do. I find Sonnia and Rasputina to be just reprehensible for the (magical) slavery, and the cannibalism, should we cancel them as well? If we follow your reasoning to it's logical conclusion we will end up playing "My little Pony, personally I won't be playing that game.... Please don't think of this as an attack on you personally, it is not. My liberal ideals, makes me hate censorship, especially speech I don't like or agree with. As an example, I despise fox news, but I don't want it silenced, because I would become what I despise. All the hyperbole aside, for something like Homelander, that stuff is core to the flavour of the show. If you don't like sexual violence, just don't want the show (and indeed it is why I stopped). Sometimes it isn't core, though, and it becomes questionable whether it should be there. I stopped recommending Rick and Morty to people as I didn't really feel like asking how comfortable theyd be with the child rape scenes in it. I think the show would be better without it. For Malifaux, "if you don't like implied sexual violence, don't play the game" is a stupid outcome IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 6 hours ago, kross1 said: I understand what you're saying, and get it. The company also needs to understand that taking away fun and entertaining characters may also have existing players leave the game. My 20 yr old daughter plays maulifaux, she loves Seamus. So you want take her favorite master away, because it may offend somebody who doesn't even play the game. Is that what a company wants to do? Ostracize the existing player base, in the off chance it may offend someone who may or may not even spend a dime on it. I think this shows a lack of imagination as well. There are probably a ton of ways they could do interesting things with Seamus' story while removing this aspect. Assuming DMH and they had to kill off some characters of course. But if they're going to DMH stuff and have to upset somebody, why not clean up these issues at the same time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross1 Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 Wow, that is some sanctimonious bs, if I ever heard it. I know I have that pearl clutching emoji somewhere..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 Interesting conversation, some of it wildly one direction or another, and sort of fun seeing how off some people are in what actually IS and what is PERCIEVED, but characters are written that way for a reason so that people can identify with them one way or another and make them 'theirs'. That being said, I have a feeling two seconds after I decide to take a nap somewhere, this thread will turn ugly just because. Everyone of course is most welcome to their opinions and I find them interesting to read, even if I don't agree one way or another. /Locked 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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