GG2 and Guild

[Legislat]

Some of my thoughts. Lets discuss.

 

[Filox]

For now I think GG2 is a little hard for Guild (or me at least). SoA are still very hard to do. BTL is easier SoA, I think it's okayish strat. Turf War is great strat for us. Most of our masters can play it comfortable. CLL is 0 sum game most of the time. 

As for the schemes:

- Detonate Charges - except LJ, Elite and Journalist this scheme is too hard to boother most of the time

- Death Beds & RM are mostly dead schemes for us, until titles come out of course

- Outflank is also dead scheme, we lack mobility to do it efficiently, maybe Dashel can go for it but I always pass this scheme

- Bait & Switch is kinda a free scheme in my opinion for anyone, but Guild can do a little more efficiently thanks to our miss position tech

In summary 3 out 4 strategies are okay and 7 out of 13 schemes are playable. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, Filox said:

 

- Death Beds & RM are mostly dead schemes for us, until titles come out of course

For death beds you can do corpse markers, so I find basically any crew doing killing can pull it off, but it can be awkward for sure. 

I think we may see lower scoring overall this season - the schemes are hard for everyone (although seems worst for Guild).

[Maniacal_cackle]

Also, I *think* you can use strategy markers for all the schemes now?

And since 3/4 of the schemes have people hanging out near strategy markers, the 'near a marker' schemes may be more possible.

But I've found Death Beds is way harder than Dig Their Graves was (and that was hard enough).

[admiralvorkraft]

GG2 requires a greater variety of tools. I don't think there are any dead schemes in the packet - you just have to learn how to use the models that can score them.

[Filox]

2 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

GG2 requires a greater variety of tools. I don't think there are any dead schemes in the packet - you just have to learn how to use the models that can score them.

Can I ask for examples? Perhaps on the new schemes I said are bad for GU. Please take a notice we are looking for double score from scheme in question.

[admiralvorkraft]

Detonate charges and Outflank are doable for Dashel, Hoffman, and Family. Free points for Elite/ Journalist basically. 

Research Mission is easy for Family and Hoffman (Blown Apart markers). Death Beds is viable for Family and Elite. And Death Beds is viable for anyone against a marker master - just use their markers against them. 

[Filox]

34 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Detonate charges and Outflank are doable for Dashel, Hoffman, and Family. Free points for Elite/ Journalist basically. 

Not for Family, you don't have enough cards for this in my opinion + your opponent has to come close. Dashel and Hoff are okay, but not they best picks.

35 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Research Mission is easy for Family and Hoffman (Blown Apart markers). Death Beds is viable for Family and Elite. And Death Beds is viable for anyone against a marker master - just use their markers against them. 

You need two Blown Apart to do it, double Riot Breaker or Riot Breaker + Papa is bad hire. Using your opponents marker is not viable option you can rely on. Family & Elite cannot do Death Beds reliably as well. Using Corpse Markers from dead models and not generation is bad play.

[Legislat]

I think the main point in my thoughts are missed in this discussion. I dont think those schemes are bad just because they are undoable. They are possible ofc. The thing is comparing to the others those are:

1) Obvious for your opponent if you tune your crew for them

2) Therefore are easy to deny

3) Require considerable investment both in dedicated models and AP.

In my opinion it is hardly worth it considering those points.

Lets take the "tame" outlflank as the example of the most doable of those. Can you safely dedicate two models almost entirely for scheming at the opposite table corners?

This scheme is very hard to score if one of those models is delt with. I cant say I found a sure way to score this without completely outpowering/outmaneuvering the opposite crew. The other possibility is you safely score this one and will struggle with your self handicap in other points of interest. Using this scheme takes considerable luck and skill against competent opponent.

So, are those schemes possible/doable? Yes. Are they reliable? By no means. 

[admiralvorkraft]

2 hours ago, Filox said:

Not for Family, you don't have enough cards for this in my opinion + your opponent has to come close. Dashel and Hoff are okay, but not they best picks.

Then you're not playing the resource game as efficiently as you could be. Your opponent doesn't have to come to you, you can see where they are going to be in two turns, and start setting up to make the scheme easy with your AP advantage.

 

2 hours ago, Filox said:

You need two Blown Apart to do it, double Riot Breaker or Riot Breaker + Papa is bad hire. Using your opponents marker is not viable option you can rely on. Family & Elite cannot do Death Beds reliably as well. Using Corpse Markers from dead models and not generation is bad play.

You need one Blown Apart marker. If you need to move it you just use the ability again? I'm confused by this statement. Elite and Family both have the ability to concentrate AP which is what turns on schemes like Death Beds/Dig Graves.

I wouldn't use corpse markers from dead models, I wasn't making that argument. But you absolutely can use your opponent's markers. Kaeris' models want to stand near/in Pyres, Savage wants to end their activation next to Ice Pillars as do several December models. Umbra creates markers close to themselves. If you're playing the game and alive to the evolving game-state you're going to be able to pounce on your opportunities in a number of matchups. 

You might struggle to create/capitalize on those opportunities if you're sinking 1/3 of every crew into the Pale Rider and Guild Steward. I don't mean to be combative, I just mean that there are a lot of tools in-faction that Guild players on the forum seem to forgo in favor of a pretty uniform crew build. If you look at all schemes through the lens of what that one crew can do, rather than looking at the whole faction, then you're going to find a lot more "dead" schemes.

I will say that I don't like Outflank for the same reason that I don't like Claim Jump - it forces my positioning game when I'd much rather be playing a in a more fluid and reactive style. It's totally doable (particularly with Deadly Pursuit models like Hunters/Monster Hunters/Santiago) it just doesn't jive with me.

[touchdown]

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also, I *think* you can use strategy markers for all the schemes now?

And since 3/4 of the schemes have people hanging out near strategy markers, the 'near a marker' schemes may be more possible.

But I've found Death Beds is way harder than Dig Their Graves was (and that was hard enough).

It really depends on the crew. I've started using Mei in GG2 and Death Beds is a gimme. The first point needs a small amount of set up (getting a scheme marker down), but ride the rails makes not too bad, and the 2nd point you can get just from a metal gamin walking and interacting to drop scheme markers.