Ignoring blocking terrain

[RiceP.]

Hello everyone. So, yesterday me and a friend of mine played a game (vics vs zipp) and this question came up. His Zipp was standing on top of height 3" house and i decided to hide my Vic behind pianos he previously spawned, to which he said that Zipp would see Victoria anyway because his model and terrain combined height (4" total) would exceed pianos height (3"), therefore pianos will be ignored when drawing LoS. I replied that model can ignore blocking terrain in such scenario only if i would've hid at the foot of terrain he was standing on and that Zipp wouldn't be physically able to see Vic behind the pianos anyway.
Please clarify me on subject of ignoring terrain/models due to height, i've searched thru rulebook few times but could not find much. I also did my best to recreate situation with vassal, hope it helps.

[Mycellanious]

So this is a little bit confusing in the way it laid out in the rules. The actual ruling is very clear, but its broken up over a couple pages. The relevant sections are Line of Sight (p. 52-53 physical) and Shadow (p. 54-55). 

Sight Lines are blocked by objects that are bigger than the model (p. 52), however you ignore objects smaller than your Size when drawing LoS (p. 53), however a model adds the height of any terrain its standing on to its Size (p. 54), however, however, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain Higher than its Size, ALL sight lines passing through that terrain are Blocked, even if that terrain is being ignored due to a models Size as per p. 53 (p. 54), however however however, if one model is standing on the terrain that is casting that Shadow, then the terrain is ignored (also pg 54)

So in this situation Zipp cannot see VIktoria because she is hiding in the Shadow of Terrain that is bigger than her.

[Jesy Blue]

Also, the sight lines would go through the building Zipp's on, so double can't see.

 

[RiceP.]

9 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

So this is a little bit confusing in the way it laid out in the rules. The actual ruling is very clear, but its broken up over a couple pages. The relevant sections are Line of Sight (p. 52-53 physical) and Shadow (p. 54-55). 

Sight Lines are blocked by objects that are bigger than the model (p. 52), however you ignore objects smaller than your Size when drawing LoS (p. 53), however a model adds the height of any terrain its standing on to its Size (p. 54), however, however, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain Higher than its Size, ALL sight lines passing through that terrain are Blocked, even if that terrain is being ignored due to a models Size as per p. 53 (p. 54), however however however, if one model is standing on the terrain that is casting that Shadow, then the terrain is ignored (also pg 54)

So in this situation Zipp cannot see VIktoria because she is hiding in the Shadow of Terrain that is bigger than her.

Thanks for the detailed answer, i think it clarifies this, and probably some other  questions i may have had in future.

[Mycellanious]

3 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Also, the sight lines would go through the building Zipp's on, so double can't see.

 

I dont think thats true because Sight Lines are always drawn from a top down perspective, so they dotn go diagonally through the bulding

 

[Mycellanious]

4 minutes ago, RiceP. said:

Thanks for the detailed answer, i think it clarifies this, and probably some other  questions i may have had in future.

i talk about some of the quirks of this here 

 

[Adran]

Short answer. If you are in the shadow of the terrain that is your height or higher, then it will still block sight lines from taller models. Shadow is page 54 of the paper rulebook. 

[santaclaws01]

54 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Also, the sight lines would go through the building Zipp's on, so double can't see.

 

Only if Vik is in the shadow of the shed, which it's hard to tell if she is.

[ShinChan]

On 8/15/2020 at 10:36 AM, Adran said:

Short answer. If you are in the shadow of the terrain that is your height or higher, then it will still block sight lines from taller models. Shadow is page 54 of the paper rulebook. 

@RiceP. take into account that in bold, because @Mycellanious just said "higher" in his first answer, probably missing the "equal size or..." before. So even if those pianos were size 2, Zipp wouldn't be able to see Viktoria.