Dead Man's Hand

[Fog]

In GG2020, give us some means to play DMH. Even if I have to declare single master, even if I can't hire a second master, even if I have to pick a single scheme. There's no reason to have it be so stigmatized. It's far less dangerous than dual master. 

 

But I'm just an old man shouting at clouds.

[Boomstick]

I completely agree. From what I've seen the only reason they're considered strong is because they aren't seen often enough compared to other masters, so they come out as Gotchas like the first time you see a new master.

Personally, I could see them being disallowed by default in story encounters because those actually care about the current state of the fluff. But for standard games? Let them play.

[Hagisman]

Dead Man's Hands should be allowed into Tournament scene until GG 2021. As DMH is currently as playtested as they will ever be. Eventually the rest of the game will make these models unbalanced in either direction. In which case they will either be too powerful to allow into tournaments or too weak to be a viable option.

[Toqtamish]

Right now it is up to TO. I plan to allow them myself as I see no reason not to. 

[Ogid]

One of the big points against of these is the avaliability, if these aren't avaliable in M3e and they can't no longer be found; then players that got them before will have a competitive options that the rest of the players don't.

The other problem is the number of masters per faction; Neverborn would have 10 masters (Nekima and Lilith would share crew tho, Puppets are playable with Hinamatsu, but it would be an extra advantage for the faction), Arcanist and Ressers would have 9 masters (Mortuary and Machina also are playable thanks to henchmans, but they would also have more options than the rest)

With a way to resolve these problems, (like making these models avaliable for M3e through M3 boxes, and being forced to exile a particular master to be able include one of the Dead Hand), then I guess they could be included.

For example:

• NVB: Choose Lilith or Nekima (high synergy), choose Collodi or Titania (Tanky crew, I choosed Titania because it's the tankiest crew in NVB and puppets are also very tough)
• ARC: Choose Ramos or Hoffman (high synergy)
• RES: Choose Kirai or Nicodem (one summoner for other summoner)

The non-choosen masters cannot be hired, the rest of the models of the exiled master's keyword could be still hired OOK as usual. This would avoid double masters with high synergies like the 2 Nephs or Ramos-Hoffman and would keep the 8 masters per faction. Players would have to anounce these Choices before going to the tournament or when announcing the faction in a casual game (Nekima-Collodi NVB, Ramos ARC or Kirai RES for example).

[Maniacal_cackle]

What I think would be most fair would basically be a phaseout:

DMH models will be allowed up until end of 2020. They will be monitored and restricted/banned if they are causing issues for tournaments.

That way the people who bought then six months ago get a fair whack at playing them, but everyone from this point who buys old copies knows what they're getting into.

[Morgan Vening]

On 9/28/2019 at 5:33 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

What I think would be most fair would basically be a phaseout:

DMH models will be allowed up until end of 2020. They will be monitored and restricted/banned if they are causing issues for tournaments.

That way the people who bought then six months ago get a fair whack at playing them, but everyone from this point who buys old copies knows what they're getting into.

While I would prefer that they not be phased out at all, as @Ogid mentions, there's an availability issue, and I figure that this is a reasonable compromise.

The one thing I'd change though, depending on how they're doing releases, is to time it to their book schedule, which if it's going to be just past mid-year-ish like it has been since Mali started, I'd make it GenCon 2021 and the dropping of GG2021. That gives 2 full years for people to get their fill, and it'll also roll out* at the same time those factions are getting new stuff. I figure the next "great expansion" is going to be Explorer's Guild, because waiting 2 years to get the second half of Frontier and Wastrel seems a stretch.

* That's also sufficient time to revise them, one, some or all, if they choose to do so. All of them arguably have the potential to return, and if they're wanting to revisit that, it'll give them time to figure that out.

Lilith is hurt and stuck in Titania's prison. It opens up, and she's healed, she's back.

Ramos is in prison on Earth. He escapes (or negotiates release), he's back.
Nicodem is trapped in a SoulStone. Yes, this is a massive problem, but also, ressurectionism is like, their entire faction's thing.
Collodi presents a problem, given how he's ended. But my counter would be, he's..... a puppet. There's no telling if his dismemberment isn't reversible if he's reassembled, or it might require an incantation, or something else. But being non-organic leaves plenty of potential rationales. 
Ryle, I haven't read the story, but it sounds like he's proper screwed.