Couple Noob FM Questions

[Bazlord_Prime]

Hey!

Ran our first session last night, and a couple of questions cropped up. Please help!

- Is Initiative flipped just at the first round of Dramatic Time, with the resulting order set for the remainder of that time (barring effects that modify Initiative)?

- Can a Fated use any Skill, even if it doesn't have rank in it? For example, all Fated must be able to attempt Unconsciousness tests, even if they don't have the Toughness Skill, right? They just use their Resilience Aspect alone to modify the flip.Does that mean that any old Fated could attempt a Doctor Skill test -for example - just using their Intellect Aspect as a modifier? 

Thanks!

[Qualvanda]

33 minutes ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

- Is Initiative flipped just at the first round of Dramatic Time, with the resulting order set for the remainder of that time (barring effects that modify Initiative)?

Yes, you keep your initiative all through Dramatic Time, some actions can change this number (Wait actions lowers by 1, and Pass actions raises by 1)

34 minutes ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

- Can a Fated use any Skill, even if it doesn't have rank in it? For example, all Fated must be able to attempt Unconsciousness tests, even if they don't have the Toughness Skill, right? They just use their Resilience Aspect alone to modify the flip.Does that mean that any old Fated could attempt a Doctor Skill test -for example - just using their Intellect Aspect as a modifier?

Yes, you can use any skill, and you just go by your aspect, since you have no skill ranks to modify it with. Some skills can be tricky though, mostly crafting, since you need a certain skill rank to be able to do specific things. (You can't make Artillery weapons until you have rank 4 in blacksmithing)

 

In our group we have houseruled that you can't cheat fate on skills that you have no ranks in, because you're not supposed to be good at them, but you can still get lucky.

However, that is just an optional rule, and has nothing to do with the REAL game mechanics  

[Bazlord_Prime]

30 minutes ago, Qualvanda said:

In our group we have houseruled that you can't cheat fate on skills that you have no ranks in, because you're not supposed to be good at them, but you can still get lucky.

However, that is just an optional rule, and has nothing to do with the REAL game mechanics  

I like that. Doesn't feel as though just a "+1" to the flip would suitably account for the difference in competence between a Fated who has no experience in a Skill, from one who has spent a point training in it.

Thanks!

[diki]

I think not cheating unskilled skills was a rule in 1st edition. (That they presumably got rid of for some reason)

It might be harsh for some skills like toughness/Unconsciousness. Which could cause a metagame of everyone favoring skills that are important to the game mechanics but not to their character concept (but that will be group dependant).

[Qualvanda]

1 hour ago, diki said:

I think not cheating unskilled skills was a rule in 1st edition. (That they presumably got rid of for some reason)

It might be harsh for some skills like toughness/Unconsciousness. Which could cause a metagame of everyone favoring skills that are important to the game mechanics but not to their character concept (but that will be group dependant).

Yes, that was a rule in 1st edidtion, we just kept it.

It's so easy to die in the game though, so putting one rank in toughness doesn't hurt anyone anyway

But I see your point, doesn't feel like OUR group suffered too much from it, though... but I can't speak for every group.

[diki]

Having thought about it more I dislike my previous answer! Someone who wants to roleplay a character who isn't tough would probably accept they are going to pass out a lot!

A different problem I have with the not allowing cheating for untrained though. With attribute + skill based systems - characters can be moderatly good at something by either having a natural affinity/aptitude (through stats) or through training/experience (skills).

Say two characters have rating 3 (one with att == 3 and one with skill == 3) I think it would be weird that the naturally more talented character couldn't cheat but someone with training could. (that's before even thinking about characters with NEGATIVE attributes!)

[edit added below]

Cheating doesnt change your possible maximum, just how easily you can reach it. Someone with high att + high skill will still beat someone with low att + no skill. SO blocking cheating doesnt seem that useful.

Also another significant reason for cheating is to activate triggers - which you (mostly/ignoring pursuits) won't have for untrained skills.

[Qualvanda]

Yes, but someone with the skill knows what they're doing, while someone with natural talent just seem to have an affinity for it.

So in that regard someone who has practiced the art of something, should be more inclined to have a few tricks up their sleeve

[Steamtastic Vagabond]

I see the ability to cheat fate as just that, spitting in the face of fate. Anyone should be able to cheat because it is literally them defying fate, any one can have a lucky streak.

[Bazlord_Prime]

On 7/6/2018 at 10:41 PM, diki said:

I think not cheating unskilled skills was a rule in 1st edition. (That they presumably got rid of for some reason)

It might be harsh for some skills like toughness/Unconsciousness. Which could cause a metagame of everyone favoring skills that are important to the game mechanics but not to their character concept (but that will be group dependant).

My players agreed to house-rule this as above, but you make a good point about metagaming/min-maxing those few key skills (Toughness, Notice, etc). We're just starting out, so I expect we'll need to face that once the first combat is over and the dust settles from that.

Unconsciousness tests may just have to be an exception, as they're so key to the mechanics.

[Bazlord_Prime]

On 7/7/2018 at 12:16 PM, Qualvanda said:

Yes, but someone with the skill knows what they're doing, while someone with natural talent just seem to have an affinity for it.

So in that regard someone who has practiced the art of something, should be more inclined to have a few tricks up their sleeve

That's how I'm thinking about it currently. One example: Doctor Skill. Someone with a high Intelligence aspect probably still won't know exactly what to do to fix someone up after they've been shot. Unless you assume they're just doing First Aid (which, incidentally, is described as something that a character with the Doctor Skill can do for (2) AP), while someone with training (even if it's just at Rank 1) will know about applying pressure, elevating the wound, cleaning out the bullet and any associated cloth, etc. 

I dunno. I probably wouldn't want to tell my players that they couldn't make a (2) First Aid attempt unless they had the Doctor Skill, but allowing them to do so already assumes that their character has some kind of knowledge, that's either come from training, or hands-on experience, rather than just being generally clever.

[Bazlord_Prime]

Another question tho:

How do y'all resolve Destiny steps: in the order they come in, or randomly as opportunity allows? Feels like the last part of the Destiny phrase should probably always be done last, at least.

[Mason]

11 hours ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Another question tho:

How do y'all resolve Destiny steps: in the order they come in, or randomly as opportunity allows? Feels like the last part of the Destiny phrase should probably always be done last, at least.

They are written with the understanding that they will be completed in order.

[ezramantis]

One argument in favor of only being able to cheat when you have a skill, purely from a mechanical standpoint, is that it makes getting those 1,1,1,1,1 flips during character creation more appealing and balances out starting characters a bit better.

[Bazlord_Prime]

Another question:

Does gaining/increasing a Fated's Toughness Skill also increase their Wd Aspect? Or is that set at Character Creation, only to be modified by Talents etc?

Also, from the Skill Advancement options given out by the Fatemaster at the Epilogue, if the Fated takes one as a new Skill at Rank 1, can they then use their 1 XP to increase Rank 2 in an existing Skill as well? Or gain another new Skill at Rank 1? And can that Skill be absolutely anything, or should it still be from the options presented by the FM, plus any options given by their particular Pursuit?

I think that they way I read it (on pg 318), is that the Fated can advance in only one Skill in the Epilogue, and that Skill must be from the options given. If it's a new Skill, she gains it at Rank 1, and retains her XP. If it's an existing Skill, she will need to spend XP equal to her current Rank to advance it. Right?

Thanks again!

 

[Mason]

53 minutes ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Another question:

Does gaining/increasing a Fated's Toughness Skill also increase their Wd Aspect?

Yes.

53 minutes ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Also, from the Skill Advancement options given out by the Fatemaster at the Epilogue, if the Fated takes one as a new Skill at Rank 1, can they then use their 1 XP to increase Rank 2 in an existing Skill as well? Or gain another new Skill at Rank 1? And can that Skill be absolutely anything, or should it still be from the options presented by the FM, plus any options given by their particular Pursuit?

Characters can only learn one Skill per session, and it must come from either the list given to them by the Fatemaster in the Epilogue or from Skills allowed by the Fated's "On the Pursuit" Talent. If the character does not have any ranks in the Skill, they gain 1 rank for free. If they have 1 or more Ranks in the Skill, they may spend XP equal to the Skill's current rank to increase its Rank by +1.

[Bazlord_Prime]

Dammit - another question, sorry!

 

Got a Fated who's starting down the Augmented Pursuit (from Into The Steam). He's got a Partial Limb pneumatic arm, with a Piston Driver augmentation. I told him (getting it wrong, I think), that he'd need the Pneumatics Skill (Rank 3) in order to be good at using that limb for Combat. He also got the Martial Arts & Melee Skills at Ranks 3 & 1 respectively.

Then, he bought Fighting Claws, and a Club. We're currently saying he's got the Fighting Claws attached to his pneumatic, so they're out on display.

So, how wrong have we gone?! I assumed the Pneumatic Skill was needed to use the limb as a weapon, but the Pneumatics actually have no damage themselves, right? He doesn't even need that Skill to utilise the Piston Driver ability, does he? Because it just augments the Might Aspect. 

So we got all confused about how he's actually attacking, which skills he's using, and what Pneumatics is used for (and whether he actually needs it).

Think we've settled on:

- Pneumatics will come in if he gets an Augment that allows an integrated weapon;

- if he's using his Claws, he uses the Martial Arts Skill (and Damage Track). If he's using the Club, it's the Melee Skill;

- the Claws just add "Fistload" to the Martial Arts Skill damage track;

Sound about right? Thanks!

[Steamtastic Vagabond]

The pneumatics skill is used for melee weapons with mechanical parts like a buzz saw and the like. Pneumatic limbs are different however in that punching someone with a pneumatic arm is exactly the same as punching with a fist of flesh and would therefore use the Pugilism skill.

Also, where it says skill in the equipment table refers to the minimum skill required to craft the thing, not use it.

[Bazlord_Prime]

Another couple:

1/. Does the "Dazed" Condition affect combat actions? If a FM character is Dazed, will it's Fated target receive +2 to her Df (because the FM is at a +2 TN to all actions)? Similarly, if a Fated is Dazed, will the TN of her Df flip be at +2? Or does Dazed only affect things such as Challenges?

2/. Does a character receive a Critical Effect EVERY time it takes a wound when it's at zero wounds or below?

Thanks again!

[diki]

2 hours ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

1/. Does the "Dazed" Condition affect combat actions? If a FM character is Dazed, will it's Fated target receive +2 to her Df (because the FM is at a +2 TN to all actions)? Similarly, if a Fated is Dazed, will the TN of her Df flip be at +2? Or does Dazed only affect things such as Challenges?

I think so.

2 hours ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

2/. Does a character receive a Critical Effect EVERY time it takes a wound when it's at zero wounds or below? 

Yes

[Bazlord_Prime]

14 hours ago, diki said:

I think so.

Yes

Thanks. I figured it would - I think I just wasn't sure about whether combat duels used Target Numbers (TNs), but since no flips are actually opposed duels (as they are in M2e), it means that every flip is a simple duel, against a TN of some kind.