Nellie - Ours + Big jake good?

[Baratta]

Hello,

Started a league with GG2018 and next game is ours, I am thinking Nellie because of Big Jake counting double so its 10 pts to hold a quarter. Has anybody tried this? is it worth it?

Any recommendations? I used to run Mctavish and he looks viable for ours as his incresase cost I think will help secure a quarter.

Strategy:

Ours (CROWS) / Corner Deployment

 Schemes:

Guarded Treasure (Paired Crows) /

Search the Ruins (Number 8)

Undercover Entourage (Number 5)

Set Up (Number 3)

Take Prisoner (Number 9)

 

[4thstringer]

I like it myself, but I like Nellie in Ours anyways.

[Clockwork_Fish]

Has there been a definite answer on whether or not Jake really counts as 10 ss?  The consensus among players seems to be yes, he does, but has there been an answer from Wyrd?

[4thstringer]

27 minutes ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

Has there been a definite answer on whether or not Jake really counts as 10 ss?  The consensus among players seems to be yes, he does, but has there been an answer from Wyrd?

I didn't know there was an argument to the contrary.

[Fetid Strumpet]

There is a large argument about that. I don’t rule it that way for example. He counts as two models, nowhere does it say you get to count his cost twice. He counts as two models that cost a total of 5 SS.

[Clockwork_Fish]

2 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

There is a large argument about that. I don’t rule it that way for example. He counts as two models, nowhere does it say you get to count his cost twice. He counts as two models that cost a total of 5 SS.

I'm kind of on the fence about it.  The rule on his card says nothing about his points cost one way or another.  Honestly, I'm less worried about Jake than about Ten Thunders players stashing random Tanuki in their deployment zones who just doze off behind blocking terrain and end up being MVPs.

[Jesy Blue]

Yeah, been a couple conversations with Big Jake on the Outcasts side and the Tanuki on the Ten Thunder's side, which would be worse as they are not Rare.

[Baratta]

2 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I like it myself, but I like Nellie in Ours anyways.

Can you share any ideas on you list? Or models you like to take.

[skoatz]

4 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

There is a large argument about that. I don’t rule it that way for example. He counts as two models, nowhere does it say you get to count his cost twice. He counts as two models that cost a total of 5 SS.

And nowhere does it say you don't get to count his cost twice.  Regardless of anyone's ruling, it's definitely ambiguous enough where I'm hopeful for an FAQ on it soon.

Until then, most events I've participated in rule Big Jake and Tanuki as counting their cost twice.  So Nellie is my go-to when Ours comes up.

Models I like to take with Nellie in Ours:

Phiona because of her 1 AP action to place in base contact with an enemy engaged with a friendly model.  That can be useful if you need to get her to a different table quarter.  I always take Phiona with Nellie though.

Peacekeeper because its sturdy and can run pretty independently and has a high SS cost.

Big Jake for counting twice.

And Anna if I'm going up against Ten Thunders, Ressers, or Arcanists.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Rules sets are permissive, you only get to do what the rules tell you you can do. Arguing that because the rules don’t say that you don’t count them isn’t a valid argument because the rules also don’t say you can’t just win the game by declaring you do. They don’t say that you can’t just declare an enemy model dead by just saying so. In order to be a valid rule it has to explicitly tell you you can do something.

A better argument, and the only one that currently is valid, and is the point of contention is what the interpretation behind counts as two models means. RAW it means what it says on the tin. It counts as two models for the instances it says it does, and all that means is the number of models, no other variable like cost is counted. Given that a good deal of the rule set has been based on intent and not what is actually written it is an entirely logical argument to argue the designer’s meant you to count cost twice. I don’t agree with that argument but it has a good basis for interpretation. Arguing that the rules don’t say you can’t and so you can is not.

[DeadManTalking]

Last I heard it was ruled that the models with these rules do not count as twice their soulstone cost.

[Fetid Strumpet]

That isn’t universally true as of yet. At the moment it is open to interpretation. Wyrd hasn’t issued any official statements as to how they interpretate it. So it’s down to how individual TOS rule it for organized play, and how the players rule it for casual games.