Sonnia Meta

[trikk]

50 minutes ago, Shock & Awe said:

I would tend to agree with this interpretation, but this brings me back to Asura Rotten.  It's written as once per activation, so why doesn't it reset as well?  It doesn't say once per turn either. 

It does. Lets say you have 2 belles. Belle 1 lures someone in her engagement. She pounces using Asuras attack. Then the enemy model pushes in b2b with belle number two. Its enemies activation so its a different activation so Belle number 2 pounces using asuras attack. Then its Belle Number 2 who can attack with Asuras attack too. You used the ability 3 times. Once per each activation (friendly or enemy).

 

The faq confirms it. What it does say is: If Belle number one Lures a model into engagement of 3 belles only one can use Asura's attack which supports what I wrote above

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, Shock & Awe said:

I would tend to agree with this interpretation, but this brings me back to Asura Rotten.  It's written as once per activation, so why doesn't it reset as well?  It doesn't say once per turn either. 

It does work once per activation but only for one model. The faq is to prevent five belles from each borrowing an attack once to make a pounce during each belle's activation. One model can still do it each activation.

[Adran]

On 25/11/2017 at 3:06 PM, trikk said:

I just want to point out that the fact something worked in 2014 doesn't mean its competitive now. I think this list would be chewed througg by a lot of lists now.

I partially agree, 2017 is a different game to 2014 in terms of Strats and Schemes, and the 2017 is much worse for Sonnia, and the kill everything then score mentality. There is also a lot of different stuff out there, and I'm not sure how much would hinder this list. I'm also not sure how much would have added to Sonnia. Certainly the errata won't have hindered the style they were used in. If you played a rule book game now, it would still be competitive. (Unless its stake a claim, Sonnia really hates that). There are certainly some 2017 set ups where it would work well. 

 

22 hours ago, Shock & Awe said:

I would tend to agree with this interpretation, but this brings me back to Asura Rotten.  It's written as once per activation, so why doesn't it reset as well?  It doesn't say once per turn either. 

The ability can be used once each activation, so 5 belles all pouncing in the same activation would only let 1 Belle use the ability. Next activation when  a different belle activates and creates the pounces again, again only 1 model during that belles activation can use the attack. 

[trikk]

12 minutes ago, Adran said:

I partially agree, 2017 is a different game to 2014 in terms of Strats and Schemes, and the 2017 is much worse for Sonnia, and the kill everything then score mentality. There is also a lot of different stuff out there, and I'm not sure how much would hinder this list. I'm also not sure how much would have added to Sonnia. Certainly the errata won't have hindered the style they were used in. If you played a rule book game now, it would still be competitive. (Unless its stake a claim, Sonnia really hates that). There are certainly some 2017 set ups where it would work well. 

Austringers go nerfed. Thats one thing. Blast Misaki blows this list. Sandeep might blow this list. Yasunori kills this list in 2 turns ;). Hamelin will most likely blow this list. If he has Nix you are even more screwed. I mean I don't want to take away the players skill because he probably is very good but I wouldn't call it competitive because every one got a lot of good stuff and this list has none

[Adran]

4 hours ago, trikk said:

Austringers go nerfed. Thats one thing. Blast Misaki blows this list. Sandeep might blow this list. Yasunori kills this list in 2 turns ;). Hamelin will most likely blow this list. If he has Nix you are even more screwed. I mean I don't want to take away the players skill because he probably is very good but I wouldn't call it competitive because every one got a lot of good stuff and this list has none

The Austringer nerf wouldn't change the use in this too much. 

I know he has used it to slaughter Hamlin. How much was due to players, I don't know, but he found it easy to kill Hamlin because he could easily kill all the stolen. Sometimes even in the same attack that he used to kill Hamlin.  I've found Nix is not a popular choice, and against a Casting blast master I would not expect Nix to last long at all. 

[trikk]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

The Austringer nerf wouldn't change the use in this too much. 

I know he has used it to slaughter Hamlin. How much was due to players, I don't know, but he found it easy to kill Hamlin because he could easily kill all the stolen. Sometimes even in the same attack that he used to kill Hamlin.  I've found Nix is not a popular choice, and against a Casting blast master I would not expect Nix to last long at all. 

Nix has Hollow. I honestly doubt he will be able to touch either Hamelin or Nix with no positives to damage without getting ratblocked or hit with Ashes and Desolation engine.

[4thstringer]

I haven't played into Hamlin in a while but I've always suspected sonnia would be one of the better plays into him.   

[trikk]

You get outactivated and then Desolation Engine and Ashes charge Sonnia after obeys. Thats around 4-5 ml6-7attacks and tn13 df tests.

Or he just kills Francisco and engages Sonnia so you're down to df4

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, trikk said:

You get outactivated and then Desolation Engine and Ashes charge Sonnia after obeys. Thats around 4-5 ml6-7attacks and tn13 df tests.

Or he just kills Francisco and engages Sonnia so you're down to df4

Thast a very simple way to look at it. 

What probably happens is turn 1 no-one dare leave the deployment zone and general hiding. Ashes and Desolation engine only get multiple attacks on the Sonnia crew if Sonnia moves out to allow it. Likewise If Hamlin move out too early, Sonnia blasts from that model onto the rat engine, removing it. If Sonia is happy to ignore turn 1 and stay in hiding, then she is able to nulify the turn 1 rat engines advantage, at the cost of her tempo. The up side is that eitehr Hamlin has also cost his tempo, or has started to move targets into range.

How it turns out will probably depend on who is the better player and what schemes and strats there are in the game as well as what the table lay out is like. 

 

[trikk]

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

Thast a very simple way to look at it. 

What probably happens is turn 1 no-one dare leave the deployment zone and general hiding. Ashes and Desolation engine only get multiple attacks on the Sonnia crew if Sonnia moves out to allow it. Likewise If Hamlin move out too early, Sonnia blasts from that model onto the rat engine, removing it. If Sonia is happy to ignore turn 1 and stay in hiding, then she is able to nulify the turn 1 rat engines advantage, at the cost of her tempo. The up side is that eitehr Hamlin has also cost his tempo, or has started to move targets into range.

How it turns out will probably depend on who is the better player and what schemes and strats there are in the game as well as what the table lay out is like. 

I agree. But if T1 you are in your deployment its hard to do anything. Second thing is you have 1 reliable blast attack if you focus. That won't stop the engine. I had a game where I lost 2 rats and obedient T1 and it didn't stop the engine from working.

 

I'd like it to work but after a year of playing Sonnia and 3-4 months of Hamelin I don't really see the proposed crew working against tier 1 competitive lists handled by good players.

[4thstringer]

Even if it isn't a win against 2 of the best masters when played by skilled players,  does that make it a bad list?   Not many masters in the game beat hamelin or sandeep reliably.  If there is one in guild,  I haven't played with it yet. 

[trikk]

1 minute ago, 4thstringer said:

Even if it isn't a win against 2 of the best masters when played by skilled players,  does that make it a bad list?   Not many masters in the game beat hamelin or sandeep reliably.  If there is one in guild,  I haven't played with it yet. 

Storm Misaki? Any Gremlin list with Merris? Shenlong with 2 snipers also has a high chance IMHO.

 

Im sure a great player can make it work decent but its a case of a player.

[4thstringer]

I've handled storm misaki with reincarnation sonnia.   Its not an impossible matchup.   Can't speak to Merris, as I've rarely seen her used successfully offensively. 

[trikk]

2 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I've handled storm misaki with reincarnation sonnia.   Its not an impossible matchup.   Can't speak to Merris, as I've rarely seen her used successfully offensively. 

Was it 2 competitive maxed out lists?

[4thstringer]

58 minutes ago, trikk said:

Was it 2 competitive maxed out lists?

Mine definitely wasn't, my opponent was preparing for a tournament, but I don't know whether that list was.  He has a strange obsession with Oiran :-).

But whether something is decent or not, or whether it is a "competitively maxed out list" are two very different things.  The obsessive focus on the one is the reason I think that tournament malifaux in general is bad for the game.

[trikk]

5 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Mine definitely wasn't, my opponent was preparing for a tournament, but I don't know whether that list was.  He has a strange obsession with Oiran :-).

But whether something is decent or not, or whether it is a "competitively maxed out list" are two very different things.  The obsessive focus on the one is the reason I think that tournament malifaux in general is bad for the game.

[4thstringer]

I was just coming back to say that I jumped down your throat faster than you deserved.  You make perfectly valid points about viability, and if we are talking viability, we are clearly talking competitive malifaux.

[Ludvig]

@trikk Where is that comic strip from?  

[trikk]

16 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@trikk Where is that comic strip from?  

No idea, but it shows the competitive aspects of wargaming pretty well

[DeadManTalking]

Had a chance to try out Sonnia's new melee upgrade and went for a reincarnation build as well. Not sure how competitive it will be, I'll have to play more games with it, but I was able to make 5 witchling stalkers over the course of the game and managed to pull out a 7-6 win against Ulix.

[4thstringer]

1 hour ago, ConfuciuSay said:

Had a chance to try out Sonnia's new melee upgrade and went for a reincarnation build as well. Not sure how competitive it will be, I'll have to play more games with it, but I was able to make 5 witchling stalkers over the course of the game and managed to pull out a 7-6 win against Ulix.

Piglets feel like the perfect thing to make into stalkers, but I'm surprised sonnia wasnt alpha striked into oblivion. 

[DeadManTalking]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

Piglets feel like the perfect thing to make into stalkers, but I'm surprised sonnia wasnt alpha striked into oblivion. 

Piglets were in fact the perfect thing to make into stalkers. My opponent did try to get to Sonnia, but between two sets of fire walls, keeping her well hidden/protected, and setting up several road blocks; I was able to keep her above half health any time he managed to get a model to her and then would just heal it all back on her activation.

[JosephCurwen]

What's in your opinion a good sonnia list and what's your opinion on the new upgrades?

[Stonewall78]

Most of my issues with reincarnation has been mostly adding the burning first then killing without doing it outright. Trying the emissary to help with that. Only time it has worked really well for me was against Hamlin.

[DeadManTalking]

1 hour ago, Stonewall78 said:

Most of my issues with reincarnation has been mostly adding the burning first then killing without doing it outright. Trying the emissary to help with that. Only time it has worked really well for me was against Hamlin.

I agree with you for the most part, but her new upgrade helps with this issue. Jumping up to Ml 7 with auto burning, blasts on moderate and severe, as well as healing and drawing cards makes it real easy to hit something twice killing it and making a stalker.