Sandeep without Mages.

[WWHSD]

Does anyone run Sandeep without Oxfordian Mages? I want to give it a shot and am having a hard time finding anything that can replace them.

I like the look of the Shastar Vidya Guards but they run a point more for a pair than the trio of Mages do and at least on paper don't seem like they bring nearly as much to the crew.

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

I played Samdeep more without mages than within, honestly (for the little I've played him).

I've played with some success this one:

 

Sandeep: command, seize, arcane reserv. 6 ss

Carlos vasquez: stunt, practiced

Johan: well reharsed

Union miner

Large arachnid

Ice gamin

Wind gamin

Malifaux raptor

Malifaux raptor

 

I like Johan, miner and arachnid tag team a lot. They buff and sinergize with each other, giving carlos schemes for PP.

Of course raptor were before last errata. Havem't played him since a couple of months.

 

Heard of someone using Myranda-berus and incorporeal-hank successfully. Never tried that.

[KingCrow]

I run Sandeep without the Mages all the time.  I like to try new things out and not follow the standard "YOU MUST TAKE THE MAGES" line of thought.  I usually bring a Librarian for the heals and card draw and then either bring Anna for her utility, card cycling and damage with a chance to summon a Sheishin or Carlos with his usual upgrades.  I've also brought along Silent ones for their healing and potential 4 attacks.  My typical Sandeep crew might look like this:

Sandeep - Behold, Unaligned, Enlightened (6SS)

Amina

Carlos - Stunt Double, PP

Librarian - Well Rehearsed

Large Arachnid (or Silent One or Willie)

Performer

Arcane Effigy

Raptor (or Gamin for 1 SS more but why hire one if you're just going to summon them in anyway?)

This type of crew can deal with almost any type of threat.  Decent damage, get rid of scheme markers, healing and a decent amount of card draw.  I've won a lot of games with a crew basically composed like this. 

[retnab]

I also usually don't bring the Mages unless I'm doing an Unaligned Sage Academic based crew. Usually i'll bring a list of heavy hitters and movers and let my summons do the scheming, but then I'm a Visions player so for Commands/Weakness players YMMV. Sue, Howard, Envy, Joss, Captain, Silent One, and Shastar are all solid picks. I've never brought more than 1 Shastar but I find it to be a very nice model that can get a surprising amount done, especially with Well Rehearsed.  Effigy's nearly mandatory, and of course one starter Gamin too.

[Franchute]

Ben from Aracane Reservoir was running him with Carlos, Howard, a set of wind gamins, a raptor and the effigy. That was before the cuddle.

[spooky_squirrel]

15 hours ago, WWHSD said:

Does anyone run Sandeep without Oxfordian Mages? I want to give it a shot and am having a hard time finding anything that can replace them.

I like the look of the Shastar Vidya Guards but they run a point more for a pair than the trio of Mages do and at least on paper don't seem like they bring nearly as much to the crew.

My recommendation would be to generate some random scenarios and look at how you would accomplish them. Then you can really start looking into variations on Sandeep that don't revolve around some kind of mindless bog standard "bring mages, bring henchman, bring token Gamin".

Shastar Vidiya Guards are surprisingly hard hitting and give a little extra control in the form of friendly pushes (as a (0)), but I have yet to put more than one on a table at a time. Their sticker price of 8 stones really encourages me to diversify my crew more when I'm bringing one of them. They bring two characteristics that can work really well within Arcanists: M&SU and Academic. Given that this is for Sandeep, you care about that second one more. However, you can still get some mileage out of the first one if you have reason to bring someone like Johan. The question I would be asking when you're reaching for this guy is what role is he filling? I'll use him as the Frame For Murder patsy, a counter-puncher, or as an insurance agent with his push and the Well Rehearsed upgrade, depending on what I need for the scenario and crew he's joining.

Large Steam Arachnids are interesting, to say the least. As minions they can make some use of Sandeep's Beacon ability, and with their own special abilities and a nearby scheme or scrap marker can copy abilities with a positive twist. If there are scheme marker schemes in the pool, your opponent will need to be careful about their own placement of scheme markers. You won't be surprising them with a 6" place and destroying the scheme marker for bonuses, since the marker consumption is also a (0) action, but you can be using it to turn your otherwise short ranged spider into an interesting Luring machine or Arcane Storm battery.

Raptors as Practiced Production nodes are dead, long live the Raptors. Don't despair however, as Raptors can still let you peak at your own deck if they scratch up a friend and you've got a low Mask to pitch to the cheating effort. I do this with the Shastar Vidiya Guards and cheat down defense instead of relenting, just so that I can draw the card that the Raptor stacks to the top.

Still want Practiced Production because you're loving Carlos? No problem. Another construct on my list of things to consider is the Soulstone Miner. Its ability to come up in strange places lets you still use it as a PP node, and even if you don't need that, it's got some nice utility. For instance, it ignores armor and is significant. Similar to the LSA, it's a minion, so if it's close enough to Sandeep, it can borrow some abilities.

Sandeep's Conflux makes the Emissary a Gamin, Kandara can trade upgrades with said Emissary (why? I don't know.. but she can).

 

But let's stop running through the catalog in the blind. Flip some cards for some schemes, then ask yourself whether you want to play Visions, Commands, or Weakness limited (or none of the above). In the past year various players have developed a preference for Visions or Commands and they've tailored their approach to that preference.
Commands Sandeep uses his summons and a hired beater or two (as well as Sandeep himself) to go beat on the opposing crew while hired models like Wind Gamin go complete some schemes. Oxfordian Mages are just bodies in the machine for that, and not very quick ones at that, so you might look at putting in something(s) that are quicker and better at scheming if you're going this route. I like Ice Dancers for this role.
Visions Sandeep uses his crew to distract while his summons run the schemes (kind of the opposite of Commands). The change here is to move from a gunline distraction to something that is more in-your-face. If it were me, I would be sorely tempted to take my Colette's Show on Ice and replace Colette with Sandeep, but I'd still want to make sure that I was working with the schemes and strategy in mind.
Weakness Sandeep is very new and takes him away from being a summoner. I'd have to play with it more than a little to get a sense of what it might do into various scenarios. He can still pop out Banasuva, but he has to be attacking with his Gada (in its weaker mode) to do so. Since he's not summoning outside of that, your crew is going to be scheming and distracting.

This will give you an idea of what the job of the crew will be (scheme, distract, or both) while leaving you the freedom to hire for the scenario. Need a really tanky minion to hold a marker for a bit? We've got a couple good ones like Rail Workers and the Large Steam Arachnid. Need something to help knock down summoned zombies or rats? Envy's gatling gun is quite vicious. Need to get to a Symbol of Authority to tear it down right now? Kudra and The Firestarter are both ludicrously quick. Even without summons, Sandeep has a lot of tools that he brings.
 

[Sybarite]

Just bring strong models like Carlos, Myranda, Langston,Mech rider in some combination thar fits the mission and it'll be good. He doesnt have to play mages. 

[Sybarite]

Myranda and Carlos are such good models! 

[Mxbedlam]

I kinda feel like running Sandeep without mages is a bit like shooting yourself in the foot. Sure you can bring those big guys but 15SS for so much power and utility is just so solid especially with Sandeep. I tend to stay away from the rest of the Academics, except maybe Valedictorian and Amina. There's plenty of room to bring some decent heavy hitters AND the mages.