Play this list!: Lucius edition.

[4thstringer]

So,  I've decided to try a new format of posts on here and see if it can start a discussion.   The premise is as follows: play the given list either exactly or with very little variation,  then post on here what schemes and strats you were playing into,  your mindset going in,  your opponents list,  and how it worked out.

For this week,  a list I've been working on with lucius:

50 SS Guild Crew
Lucius + 6 Pool
 - Surprisingly Loyal (1)
 - Secret Assets (2)
The Judge (9)
 - Unrelenting Leader (2)
Francisco Ortega (8)
 - Wade In (1)
Papa Loco (7)
Witchling Thrall (9)
Terracotta Warrior (5)
Changeling (4)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

My initial instincts are that my stones might be too high and that papa might be better as an austringer.   But I look forward to hearing how you all like playing this one.   

 

[Hagisman]

Right off the bat you will have problems completing the following strats and schemes, big thing is strats:

• Strategies
  • Extraction - Ok list imo. Just because Judge and Frank can hold their own in the center board, but might run into problems if the opponent has more activations/models.
  • Interference - 7 models that are good at killing in melee are more likely to be engaged by the end of the turn.
  • Head Hunter - Good list as Lucius can Issue Command for a 1 Action + 1 Interact.
  • Guard the Stash - Ok list imo. Same as extraction, but better.
  • Joker - Collect the Bounty - 2 Henchmen, might want to rethink this. Both are good, but have targets on their backs.
• Hunting Party - You have 2 henchman and 1 Enforcer. The Judge will be using his Unrelenting Leader often so he might not assist in Henchman kills unless its Frank or himself. Papa is squishy if up close with his df and wp being what they are.
• Show of Force - Both henchmen have only one upgrade and if one dies you can't guarantee those points.
• (3) Neutralize the Leader - Lucius is durable. But if your opponent goes for a backfield support master the melee crew might be a detriment.
• (10)Public Demonstration - You have 1 melee minion and two support pieces that are squishy. Not a good combo. But Lucius does have a good teleport out of dodge action.
• (12)A Quick Murder - You are relying on a lot of Melee and if terrain is unfavorable and you can't guarantee it your opponent could move their High SS model away from Francisco, Judge and Witchling Thrall without issue. The Judge and Witchling Thrall are Quick Murder targets and the Thrall will probably go down faster.
• (13) Occupy their Turf - You have 1 minion model currently that I could see getting to the opposite side of the field easily, the Thrall.

Papa might be better replaced with either of the following:

• Austringer (+1 SS to Pool) - Good at hand destruction.
• Mounted Guard (+0 SS to Pool) - Increases the charge range of your melee models and can chain activate another model if it gets its trigger off.
• Hunter (+0 SS to Pool) - Can slow and drag enemy models closer.
• Debt to the Guild (-1 SS to the Pool) - Increases damage, # of cards, and if model dies you gain a refund of its cost.

 

[ringsnake]

I'm putting serious consideration into using him and his lawyer pals in the Week 5&6 Upright Man scenario, where moving mooks around and scheme running and WP checks are the most important things to do, and you want to avoid making attack actions of any sort, and the more interacts and bonus moves you can do the better.

I've got little experience in this game, but it looks to me like whichever way you use him, Lucius seems to have good synergies with all of the models from the starter set. Angel Eyes, Heartsbane, Grimwell, Orderlies, etc... I came up with this for that specific scheme:

Lucius - Legalise and Useless Duplications

The Scribe

Grimwell

Heartsbane - Disrupt Magic

Two Guild Lawyers

Two Witchling Stalkers

One Guild Guard

The idea is that one way or another, all of these models have or grant bonus moves, and Lucius can hand out bonus walks and bonus actions. Since most of the models are Witch Hunters, Disrupt Magic is messing with opponent's casts, and removing their ability to cheat on casts. I'll probably experiment with using a Witchling Handler if Heartsbane turns out to be not durable enough.

[Hidelfon]

37 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

I'm putting serious consideration into using him and his lawyer pals in the Week 5&6 Upright Man scenario, where moving mooks around and scheme running and WP checks are the most important things to do, and you want to avoid making attack actions of any sort, and the more interacts and bonus moves you can do the better.

I've got little experience in this game, but it looks to me like whichever way you use him, Lucius seems to have good synergies with all of the models from the starter set. Angel Eyes, Heartsbane, Grimwell, Orderlies, etc... I came up with this for that specific scheme:

Lucius - Legalise and Useless Duplications

The Scribe

Grimwell

Heartsbane - Disrupt Magic

Two Guild Lawyers

Two Witchling Stalkers

One Guild Guard

The idea is that one way or another, all of these models have or grant bonus moves, and Lucius can hand out bonus walks and bonus actions. Since most of the models are Witch Hunters, Disrupt Magic is messing with opponent's casts, and removing their ability to cheat on casts. I'll probably experiment with using a Witchling Handler if Heartsbane turns out to be not durable enough.

Watch out  for "obey"  and similar things.  I got the initial 3vp making an Oxfordian mage shoot Perdita  muhahahaa

[ringsnake]

3 minutes ago, Hidelfon said:

Watch out  for "obey"  and similar things.  I got the initial 3vp making an Oxfordian mage shoot Perdita  muhahahaa

How do you get Obey when playing Guild?

[4thstringer]

Just now, ringsnake said:

How do you get Obey when playing Guild?

Dita has it. 

[Hagisman]

14 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

How do you get Obey when playing Guild?

You can also take Perdita's Brutal Emissary for + to the cast so you don't have to stone.

[Gnomezilla]

31 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

How do you get Obey when playing Guild?

Mercenary hire of Ama no Zaku. She's loaded with situational but amusing actions we don't have in-faction. But on-topic, Lucius' classic out-of faction hire is the Freikorps trapper, for even more sturdy minion sniping options.

[Cadaverousbirth]

Yeah, a good future Lucius list will have the Witchling Thralls, Terracata Warrior, trapper, Frank and a doppelganger/changeling. 

I'd drop the Judge from the OP's list. Better to just add a Peacekeeper for the same stones. 

[4thstringer]

Judge can pump more attacks through the thrall.  More attacks means more healing. 

[Hagisman]

18 minutes ago, Cadaverousbirth said:

I'd drop the Judge from the OP's list. Better to just add a Peacekeeper for the same stones. 

Judge with Unrelenting Leader becomes a very potent support piece.

I could see throwing Frank in there with his push/pull. Get witchling Thrall engaged with a heavy hitter. Swap Lucius for Frank with "What lackeys are for" so that the Thrall gets to Ml attacks. Then Unrelenting Leader the Thrall for up to 4 attacks at .

[4thstringer]

I've literally never remembered his+ to hit aura.   And I think ive played more lucius than anyone I've ever met. 

[ringsnake]

28 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I've literally never remembered his+ to hit aura.   And I think ive played more lucius than anyone I've ever met. 

My first few games were with him. Terrible idea. He's so stupidly complex that trying to make decent use of him makes me feel like blood is leaking from my ears, eyes, and nose. I never remembered his aura, couldn't figure out what the purpose of most of his abilities even was. Also didn't know that his hidden assets sniper ignores cover. 

By contrast all the other masters I own, Criid, LJ, and McMourning just seem like direct fast moving brute squads that smash things.

[4thstringer]

42 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

My first few games were with him. Terrible idea. He's so stupidly complex that trying to make decent use of him makes me feel like blood is leaking from my ears, eyes, and nose. I never remembered his aura, couldn't figure out what the purpose of most of his abilities even was. Also didn't know that his hidden assets sniper ignores cover. 

By contrast all the other masters I own, Criid, LJ, and McMourning just seem like direct fast moving brute squads that smash things.

I started with him too.  Luckily my opponent for my first few games was also a beginner,  and we didn't play crit strike right ( I took +1 damage for every ram flipped by either side,  including on the damage flip) or I can imagine frustration would have taken over. 

[Hagisman]

I did well with Lucius at TempleCon when he first came out, but it was before knew his deal and all the Scheme changes. I managed to stack focus on models that could benefit from it the most. It was great when I had the red joker in hand. However, his scheme marker tricks are a lot less useful now.

Search the Ruins is the only reason I'd take Legalese anymore. Having his 0 action be a 2ss upgrade is also completely unnecessary. And I'm devolving into ranting about how Lucius is a support master who can't even reliably support. He buffs minion models, but he does nothing to keep them from dying on the field. Even with the Brutal's Conflux for him he requires too many cards and soulstones to be viable. Terracota Warriors and Witchling Thralls are good models, but they don't fix what is inherently wrong with him.

I'm happy that Hoffman puts Lucius in a corner in the Wave 4 book. He deserves it...

End Rant...

[Ludvig]

The Judge relies on 8+ suited cards for his bonus attacks I believe. Guess eho already sucks your hand dry of those  

I like the idea of playing the same list to compare results, unfortunately I didn't see this before my game yesterday.

[Hagisman]

6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

The Judge relies on 8+ suited cards for his bonus attacks I believe.

7+ which could drop scheme markers for Lucius's Issue Command.

[Ludvig]

2 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

7+ which could drop scheme markers for Lucius's Issue Command.

Cheers! Forgot which suits the Judge used. His own bonus attacks are on masks I think which I don't rate as highly for Lucius but then again getting more Judge attacks at the cost of the built in crit strike isn't always very wortwhile. Of course everyone already loves rams. 

I often find myself wanting to do the tome trigger for both Lucius and the doppleganger so there is already steep competition for 7+ tomes. 

I like pathfinders and executioners with Lucius since they use the rarely used crows. I'd be really tempted to switch the Judge for an executioner in this list since they are scary especially when buffed with el mayor (sorry since this this goes against the point of the post).

[Hagisman]

30 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Cheers! Forgot which suits the Judge used. His own bonus attacks are on masks I think which I don't rate as highly for Lucius but then again getting more Judge attacks at the cost of the built in crit strike isn't always very wortwhile. Of course everyone already loves rams. 

...

I like pathfinders and executioners with Lucius since they use the rarely used crows. I'd be really tempted to switch the Judge for an executioner in this list since they are scary especially when buffed with el mayor (sorry since this this goes against the point of the post).

Lucius's suits for Issue Command determine when he activates and what he's doing:

• +Focus - You want to do this to a model who has yet to activate or Guild Riflemen as Focus disappears at the end phase of a turn. But this takes that could be better used for Hidden Sniper. And if your playing Guild rams could be better used for Critical Strikes on other models.
• +Interact - After succeeding the model can perform a 1 interact. Good at any point in the game.
• +Defensive - You want this to occur after a model has activated or if the model is in danger of being attacked. Good with models like Guardian and Wardens who have the Grind to a Halt defensive trigger on Df with . But this takes away from to use with What Lackeys are for.
• Nothing - The worst... You get to perform 1 action whomp whomp. Might as well just walk and use Commanding Presence.

So just looking at the list of suits he needs he is already missed the versatility that Hans, Nurses, and Field Reporters have. You don't play Lucius, your control hand plays Lucius.

He needed Reference the Field Guide or something that gives him his suit for Issue Command; Discard 1 card and add that suit to Issue Command. Otherwise he is just at the mercy of luck.

[Ludvig]

I also let the cards dictate what Lucius does, trying to bleed friendlies for soulstones is just too costly. The more I play hidden sniper the more I think I would be better of just skipping it and using the SS to get another small model or upgrading something mediocre to something better. I've switched it for dampening field and the one that let's you push at the end of the game a couple of times and not really missed it. 

The focus trigger on issue command is great for activated models too since you can use it on the attack action they're about to take. The 7-9 of rams you'll be using on this action would probably not let you hit with the hidden sniper anyway so you're not wasting much. 

[Hagisman]

8 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I also let the cards dictate what Lucius does, trying to bleed friendlies for soulstones is just too costly. The more I play hidden sniper the more I think I would be better of just skipping it and using the SS to get another small model or upgrading something mediocre to something better. I've switched it for dampening field and the one that let's you push at the end of the game a couple of times and not really missed it. 

The focus trigger on issue command is great for activated models too since you can use it on the attack action they're about to take. The 7-9 of rams you'll be using on this action would probably not let you hit with the hidden sniper anyway so you're not wasting much. 

I can see swapping out Secret Asset for something else, but then Lucius is losing his 0 action. My other thought on that upgrade is that for Detonate the Charges and any scheme marker based schemes it can really mess with your opponent's placement. I've gotten 3vp for Plant Explosives by my opponent being too sure his scheme marker drop early on couldn't be stopped. So if I see Detonate the Charges or Setup I'll be sure to take Secret Assets.

I forgot they get the focus before they can use their action. Good to keep in mind.

 

[Ludvig]

7 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

I can see swapping out Secret Asset for something else, but then Lucius is losing his 0 action. My other thought on that upgrade is that for Detonate the Charges and any scheme marker based schemes it can really mess with your opponent's placement. I've gotten 3vp for Plant Explosives by my opponent being too sure his scheme marker drop early on couldn't be stopped. So if I see Detonate the Charges or Setup I'll be sure to take Secret Assets.

 

The price of that trigger is just so high, especially if you need to hit an opponent. I guess you could use it against a friendly model with armour if you were desperate to remove a marker. That's three stones to remove that one marker basically. You could add a performer to remove markers with any suited lowish card all game long and have an extra activation but a smaller cache.

As for (0)s: depending on opposing faction you can get some use out of dampening field, preventing auras and healing can be very handy and it's a single ss.

[4thstringer]

Remember,  The terra cotta can be a stone farm for lucius at the cost of a card.   So saving suits for lucius just became less important.