Shenlong questions for those few masters of many styles.

[tadaka]

Normal game do you hire 1 totem and summon 2nd or hire 2?

What conditions stacking do you build up on first turn before combat gets heavy on turn 2?

Do you take sensai and the emmesary or do you pick between them and if so when do you take each?

Misdirection yay or nay?

Fermented river style do you try and stack that 5 poision for one turn of launch in middle and give them that 16 wk check?

 

[Inquisitor Wall]

I usually hire one and summon a second especially if someone has wandering river. 

I usually stack focus and burning. Focus so I can push and make 3 models fast on turn 1. 

I like the idea of both, but have not fielded them together since I just got the emissary. 

I only take misdirection if I am against neverborn or outcasts. Dont want to face viks, or melee centered crews without it. 

Never found the use for fermented river style with him as it defeats recalled training and focus. Id rather the high river if he is going to be engaging multiple enemies. 

[Tokapondora]

Hire 1. 2 SS vs a 0 action is really no contest. 

Focus obviously, though I also try to have at least one burning and one poison on me ASAP so if I need to I can switch to it.

I'd love to take both, but that would mean 21 SS+ at least one big beater because Shen does need it... Though considering 2 SS gives you 2 activations you're already at 6 for 35 SS + upgrades... I guess you could fly it if you wanted to? 4 SS for a Monk, 5 for a TTB, and then you have 6 left for some extra upgrades and  cache.

What ^ said. Also against Ressers.

I do occasionally use the fermented river style if I find myself going up against like Yin or Jack or something, maybe HtW/ItW. I've never really used the Wk duel thing

[tomjoad]

I'll be there voice of dissent on a couple things I guess...I actually quite like taking both Yu and the Emissary. Remember that the Emissary is a respectable beater with his Focus +2 and the 3 cards you draw during his activation and his trigger to take extra attacks. Giving out Fast to Yu, the Swordsman, a Samurai, Toshiro, etc will also increase the offensive potential of your whole crew.

Also, I really like Fermented Style when Shen needs to beat down. Given, I rarely use him to attack, but I have gotten waaay better use out of offensive Fermented River usage than I have from High River.

[InvokeChaos]

1) I think you will find the general consensus is always hire 1, summon 2. Like Toka said... 0 action (out of activation no less) or 2SS.  Now that being said, if you had some crazy hyper aggressive tactic that demanded you have 4 conditions on Shenlong turn 1... then maybe it's worth the 2SS. But that seems like a rare instance, and personally I can't think of a reason I'd do it.

2) My priority number one is always to get a burning and a poison on Shen. Focus is very easy to come by, but the issue you have here is that unless you're bopping him with peasants, you can get 2 focus for 2 fast models turn 1.  A 0 action and a 1AP action, followed by 2AP actions for the Mighty Gust. So you trade master 3AP to grant non-master 2AP plus 2 pushes. I typically count those as a walk, because 5". So 3AP for an effective 4AP.  Not too shabby. but I want Shen in position as well as my other support models, which even with the gusts and such, usually means at least a walk or two.

I personally don't try to worry about stacking focus for turn 1.  I like to do it in prep for turn 2. My dudes typically aren't going to be going psycho on my opponent until then anyways, so positioning is my major deal. So I like to just get that poison and burning for his two styles, move stuff into position and bop him for a focus after his activation. This allows me to gear up for 4 focus on turn two, and I will normally try to do Yu first to push Shen and give him fast. So I can then push 4 more models and fast them. YMMV, but I don't typically NEED fast on turn 1. But it's pretty crucial on turn 2. DISCLAIMER: I don't tend to play Shen on strats and schemes that make you want to spread out. He likes his bubble for the early and mid game. Just my preference.

3) Often I do take both. I like Emissary as a solid beater. He easily gets focused +2 and 6 dam on severe with a repeat trigger is nothing to sneeze at. Plus I always take a Monk of Low River and the synergy with him and the Emissary upgrade is just so strong. Three cards a turn for 1AP and 2x 0 actions is just so strong. And the new monk upgrade makes them useful for topping off my elites as well. I swap styles a lot as well, and that just means the Emissary is pretty much always fast. Combine that with his push and fast shenanigans as well as his 0 action and destined pulse and he's just so good with shenlong.  I know it's a lot of SS, but with proper activation order, you can basically fast your entire crew every round after round 1.  

***EDITS DUE TO ME MISREMEMBERING AND MISPLAYING EMISSARY UPGRADE
Shenlong goes and gets in position then pitches an upgrade, Emissary gets fast. Emissary fasts Yu and moves into position, draws you three cards from LRM synergy. Yu goes, moves into position and fasts Shenlong (fast doesn't drop until activation). So you now have Shen setup to fast 3-4 crew members, pitch an upgrade (not a style, I use multiple pitch upgrades to cheese Yu's disciple upgrade) to give emissary fast. And then repeat. That's 7  6 models a turn with fast. You don't need peasants fast, so that's basically your crew. I typically run an 8 model crew with Shen including his peasants. 

4) Nay. Even against NVB or Outcasts. Honestly against Outcasts I bring a different master. But if you have to face them, then yeah, misdirection can save your bacon. But if you don't have a friendly model near you to soak, your opponent can fairly easily bypass it. I think the SS are better spent elsewhere. If the Viks can reach Shen, you have bigger things to worry about then tanking a single hit. 

5) Fermented River is kind of a go-to style for me because you can get quite a bit of damage on enemies by playing with the negatives. Honestly, that pulse is great to just waste cards. Even without pumping it obscenely. But I've also played with the intention of making it a turn 3 play, and will drop 2 poison on Shen turn 2, and then ratchet him up to 3 and pulse. He's so efficient and getting conditions it's hard to stop it, and sometimes even see it coming if he's loaded up on other stuff as well. But passing out those negative flips is just NASTY. It's also why I favor Shen for center based games... his control game is better than people think.
 

[qoob]

I can't be really objective because I'm playing Shenlong as an "in your face"-Master and not as an supporter.

But anyway:

1) 1...you summon your 2nd one as soon as initiative is flipped...I prefer Kamaitachi

2) With my playstyle, I prefer Burning...the 2nd is up to you...

3) I always take both. Necessary for my list. You Need the Emissary for card draw mechanics and Yu is your pusher.

4) Misdirection is an autotake for me (I mean...for my playstyle)

5) I'm never starting with Fermented. If I need it due to HTW or similar you can switch it easily.

[SuperSalami]

 

Shenlong goes and gets in position then pitches an upgrade, Emissary gets fast. Emissary fasts Yu and moves into position, draws you three cards from LRM synergy. Yu goes, moves into position and fasts Shenlong (fast doesn't drop until activation). So you now have Shen setup to fast 3-4 crew members, pitch an upgrade (not a style, I use multiple pitch upgrades to cheese Yu's disciple upgrade) to give emissary fast.
 

What is causing the Emissary to get fast?  The conflux for Shenlong is heal 2 damage when you pitch an upgrade.  Yan Lo gives it fast, but that's when you attach an upgrade.

[InvokeChaos]

Ack! My bad >_< not sure how I confused those but I owe my gaming group a couple of apologies!!

[tadaka]

Got to hate when you are kicking butt and find out you are kicking butt because you are doing some thing wrong.

[InvokeChaos]

Fortunately I don't often kick butt, but I'm certain I've done this a couple of times. That's what I get for proxying and not waiting for the official model and cards... I mess up lol. 

I will adjust when I get to my computer so as not to confuse people!

[Anung Un Rama]

 

I can't be really objective because I'm playing Shenlong as an "in your face"-Master and not as an supporter.

But anyway:

1) 1...you summon your 2nd one as soon as initiative is flipped...I prefer Kamaitachi

2) With my playstyle, I prefer Burning...the 2nd is up to you...

3) I always take both. Necessary for my list. You Need the Emissary for card draw mechanics and Yu is your pusher.

4) Misdirection is an autotake for me (I mean...for my playstyle)

5) I'm never starting with Fermented. If I need it due to HTW or similar you can switch it easily.

Tell us more about your style with him.....whats his crew look like?

 

 

I typically run an 8 model crew with Shen including his peasants. 
 

What does your typical crew contain?

[InvokeChaos]

Shenlong, Sensei Yu, some form of beater, a sniper and whatever else the strat calls for. Favorites include 10T bros, wastrels and tengu.  I also really like running Chiaki because her ranged remove conditions is a great boon. I know we get low river style, but it's nice to have it without switching styles. And Yu has some weird interactions with it.

Ten Thunders
50ss Crew

Shenlong -- 6ss
 +Wandering River Style - 2ss
 +Recalled Training - 1ss
 +The Peaceful Waters - 0ss

Peasant - 2ss

Jorogumo - 9ss

Katanaka Sniper - 7ss

Monk Of Low River - 4ss

Sensei Yu - 9ss
 +Promising Disciple - 2ss
 +Smoke Grenades - 1ss

Shadow Effigy - 4ss

Ten Thunders Brother - 5ss

 

That's a list I used recently that I had fun with. 
 

[qoob]

 

Tell us more about your style with him.....whats his crew look like?

 

I'm using following core crew:

Shenlong (Still 15 SS left)
- Misdirection (2)
- Wandering River Style (2)
- Recalled Training (1)
Kamaitachi (4)
Sensei Yu (9)
- Promising Disciple (2)
- Equality (1)
Shadow Emissary (10)
- Conflux of The Dawn (0)
Monk Of Low River (4)

I'm trying to fill up the rest of the crew depending on the enemys faction and so on...Usually I try to have a Cache of 4 SS.

The idea is to bring Shenlong into the enemys face in turn 1 with High River Style. Because you have no Peasant, you're using only Shenlongs (0) Actions after Initiative flip. You Switch to High River Style after the first iniative => Kamaitachi draws a card (because Wandering River is attached to Yu) and pushes Shenlong 3". The LRM and the Emissary have their card draw mechanic - Besides that the Emissary gives Sensei Yu Fast. So after 2 activations you have 10 Cards in Hand. Kamaitachi gives Shenlong Burning (up to 2) and pushes him 6".

At the end of Turn 1 you're in the opponents Crew, enganging a few (hopefully). He can hardly be killed with Misdirection, Defensive Stance AND Burning Chi imo.

[tadaka]

That has been winning you games? Sounds intresting but wod not have expected it to work well. So you hope they just mess with shenlong as you get your actual objectives?

[qoob]

 

That has been winning you games? Sounds intresting but wod not have expected it to work well. So you hope they just mess with shenlong as you get your actual objectives?

It does...If he loses models in his first turn, he has to Change his plans...and I don't Need Shenlong to score VPs.

My last game was against McMourning. I managed to kill a Fleshy, Nurse, Rotten Belle and a Guild Autopsy in Turn 1 with Shenlong (target the Fleshy and blast the crap out of the rest).

EDIT: I'm playing tomorrow. I'll try to write some sort of Battle Report.

[Mutter]

 

EDIT: I'm playing tomorrow. I'll try to write some sort of Battle Report.

I'd be very interested, too. Haven't really figured out how to do Shenlong aggressively, so would love to hear more.

[Eclipse]

I am interested to hear more about his offensive side as well. I have been using (proxy) Shelong as a support so far, but last game he was forced to slap some fools around. Jack Daw, a Guilty, Sue and (I think!?) something else all were struck down by his mighty Kung-Fu.

[tadaka]

"My last game was against McMourning. I managed to kill a Fleshy, Nurse, Rotten Belle and a Guild Autopsy in Turn 1 with Shenlong (target the Fleshy and blast the crap out of the rest). "

 

Sounds awesome but how are you landing mod/critical consistently with high river. You know you have to use all your focus any time you attack? Cant just burn focus one and keep one behind. I have noticed players like to play this wrong and get very good results until they figure out you cant just burn 1 focus at a time when you make attacks. Not trying to say your wrong just see this as some thing people do wrong a lot.

[qoob]

 

"My last game was against McMourning. I managed to kill a Fleshy, Nurse, Rotten Belle and a Guild Autopsy in Turn 1 with Shenlong (target the Fleshy and blast the crap out of the rest). "

 

Sounds awesome but how are you landing mod/critical consistently with high river. You know you have to use all your focus any time you attack? Cant just burn focus one and keep one behind. I have noticed players like to play this wrong and get very good results until they figure out you cant just burn 1 focus at a time when you make attacks. Not trying to say your wrong just see this as some thing people do wrong a lot.

That's why you have Recalled Training. Drop it and you don't really need Focus most of the time. You can give him a Focus for his (0) but imho it's not really necessary. 

I'm usually trying to charge the most fragile Model in order to get the most out of his lightning kick. If i'm charging a henchman, i'm preventing SS usage first. 

Yu in the 2nd turn can be made fast again. With RT discarded and ignoring df/wp triggers,  he can be a Master threat aswell. 

I'm not saying that shenlong is a Master Killer but he is able to tear crews apart. 

DF stance, RT and Burning chi... The enemy can try to kill you. Change to low river style and heal yourself. 

Edit: oh yeah don't forget Burning chi! If you miss the straight flip by 1 or 2 take the dmg to increase the total duel. It's absolutely worth it. It's super annoying for your enemy if he cheats a card to give you a minus flip and you use Burning Chi. And you want him to burn his hand so that you can pull off misdirection more easily. 

[OneLittleThunder]

And when Shenlong uses Recalled Training, Yu gets it...

[qoob]

 

And when Shenlong uses Recalled Training, Yu gets it...

Exactly 

[InvokeChaos]

TL;DR - Try Fermented River Style for killing, and High River Style for tanking. If you want to go High River Style turn 1 aggro, be prepared to invest some AP and activations to "tool up" Shenlong before he goes blitzing in... then cross your fingers the fate deck likes you.

Offensive Shenlong is a thing. He's got a decent damage track; not great. But his style's really really help out. 

High river style's damage is really really eh... but has potential. If you're opponent bunches up, it can do some nice damage on lucky flips. Rolling a few 3 damage blasts onto a line of models is nice, but you can't expect your opponent to serve that up on a silver platter. Though I will say that running emissary here is a thing.

I've looked at High River as a first turn offensive shenanigan and here's where I think it lies:

You don't summon a peasant on turn 1 Shen phase... you drop wandering river to yu and then pick up high river. Your one peasant bops shen for burning to trigger Burning Chi. Emissary moves yu, fasts him and then walks and pops blasts on focused. Yu airbursts then mighty gusts Shen to make him fast and put him in position, then airbursts the Emissary up to hopefully maintain Aura range. You activate shen, pop a focus and a defensive on him, and charge him into the enemies line. That first attack has a solid chance at severe, with triple blasts. Second attack is whatever it is. You focus for 3rd AP and lay down hopefully another triple blast. If cards fall as you want, that's 9damage along just under 6" from your target, plus that target should be dead. 

Shen is sitting there, ideally with misdirection, and a defensive +1 condition.  Recalled training possibly popped.  

Here's my downside to this kind of hyper agressive tactic (I would run this against gremlins probably; Wong could be an issue though). If you go first: you need to activate 3 models to prep Shen for his dive. I don't really think it's a good idea to dive on only 3AP, especially considering at round1 you are looking at being too far away. So activation 4, you're halfway through the first turn and tooled up Shen to HOPEFULLY drop blasts down. Unless your 1st turn hand is monstrous to guarantee what happens next, you could just be throwing Shen in to get focused down. 

I think he actually can survive that kind of focus, depending on who it is, but they probably have enough to discard to misdirection and defensive +1 with Df6 only gets you so far. 

Shen can ABSOLUTELY blitz things. But he's not a killy master. I find that if you want to cause death, you're much better off moving into fermented river style. His main attack is 2/3/5, with a trigger to stop soulstone use. You can cheat low just to hunt for severe's by equaling their duel, or just be happy to get a single positive. Hitting might be a bit tougher without focus, but honestly, Ml6 with a decent control hand should be good enough as long as you aren't master hunting. Which I do NOT suggest shenlong do. He can absolutely bop one for preventing soulstone use, but if you are going for a Master, there are better options right now (Betty cough cough). I've blitzed 3 teddies in one game against summoner dreamer with shen, simply from fermented river style. Minions are trivial in this style, and rezzers are just hosed. 

If I want to play a more tarpit shenlong, then that's where I want High River style - preferably with low river style on Yu. It's adorable: You get a 3" reach, burning chi, pop a couple of defensive's via whatever and then giggle as Yu can heal 4-8 wds off of him each round while loading him up on burning for the trigger or poison for a clutch fermented style Stumble play.

[qoob]

Sorry for the delay. Here is some sort of Bat Rep...It's my first try so please don't eat me alive.

Strategy: Guard the Stash
Schemes: Convict Labor, Exhaust their Forces, Catch and Release, Occupy their Turf, Leave your Mark

I was playing Shenlong against Marcus.

50 SS Ten Thunders Crew
Shenlong + 4 Pool
- Misdirection (2)
- Wandering River Style (2)
- Recalled Training (1)
Kamaitachi (4)
Sensei Yu (9)
- Promising Disciple (2)
Shadow Emissary (10)
- Conflux of The Dawn (0)
The Lone Swordsman (8)
- Recalled Training (1)
Ten Thunders Brother (5)
Monk Of Low River (4)

50 SS Arcanists Crew
Marcus + 5 Pool
- Feral Instincts (1)
- The Trail Of The Gods (1)
- The Hunger Cry (1)
Jackalope (2)
Joss (10)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Myranda (8)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Sabretooth Cerberus (9)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Moleman (4)
Moleman (4)
Night Terror (3)
Malifaux Raptor (3)

(exported from CrewFaux)

I'm just going to Focus on the relevant actions that happend in the game.

ROUND 1

I won the first initiative flip and changed Style to High River. I pushed Shenlong 3" and draw a card because of Kamaitachis ability.
The TT Bro pulled of Eagle Style from his Dance of the Heavens, moved once and dropped a Scheme Marker for Convict Labor.
The Raptor hit Joss and Joss became a Beast for the reminder of the game. Moved once.
LRM made a Focus Action for (0) because he was in 6" to Shenlong. Took another Focus Action for (1) and got a 3rd. Moved once.
He moved his Jackalope and Night Terror twice each. He knows my strategy so he tried to spread his crew as good as possible.

The Emissary Fast pushed Sensei Yu, used his (0) to end the Focus condition on the LRM for 3 Cards. Moved once.

(Night Terror before the Weasel) The Weasel put Burning +2 on Shenlong and pushed him up his walk of 6" into the forest.

Miranda walked once and placed a Scheme Marker. She was approx. 2" away from the Raptor. My Goal was to take out both of them with Lightning Kick.

Yu activated and focused for (0). Mighty Gusted Shenlong, Airbursted Shenlong, Mighty Gusted Emissary. => Shenlong was Fast, had Burning and was Enganged with Raptor and Miranda.

The enemy wasn't happy with that but didn't do anything against it and activated Moleman for a double walk Action.

Shenlong dropped RT, SS for Tome - (Preventing SS Usage Trigger), killed Miranda, Due to a bad Flip I managed to hit the Raptor only for 1 Blast DMG. I walked with the last AP to engage Jackalope and to get out of Marcus' charging lane.
.
.
.
Marcus Alpha-ed Joss. Joss walk twice and Charged the Emissary with his 2nd activation. He managed to get 7dmg on the Emissary

Score 0/0

ROUND 2 

I won the initiative again with a Red Joker against a Black Joker

I changed style to the Low River to heal some dmg from Shenlong because of Burning Chi.

TT Bro made his place again and tagged the Night Terror for C&R.
.
.

Sensei Yu dropped RT and managed to pull the Emissary out of Engagement with Joss and walked into Engagement

Cerberus misses Leap flip, moves and attacks Yu for 3 Dmg (2 prevented).

LRM moves up and taggs Cerberus for C&R

Marcus used Feral + Domesticate on Yu for  on everything (Yu had still a  on Df Flips because of his Defensive Stance) and Alpha-ed Joss.

Shenlong killed Jackalope, healed himself and moved once.

Joss missed both attacks.

Joss Drops imbued and attacks Yu for 7 dmg (5 prevented) - He could have killed him because of the Red Joker in his Hand.

The Raptor landed between two of my Markers to deny Convict Labor

 

Guard the Stash: 1 Exhaust Their Forces: 0 Convict Labor: 1 
Guard the Stash: 1 Catch & Release: 1 Convict Labor: 1

 

ROUND 3

I lost the initiative flip with a 8 against the Red Joker. - Changed Style to High River

Marcus attacked Shenlong for 5 dmg (Burning Chi)

Emissary misses double Focus attack on Joss because of the Black Joker, drawed 3 Cards because of LRM, Fast pushed Yu

Sabertooth kills Kamaitachi and moves away.

Sensei Yu attacked Joss for 3 DMG, heals for 4 DMG (low River)

Joss Attacks Shenlong for 2 Dmg.

Shenlong attacks Joss got him down to HTK, stole Reactive and killed him.

Lone Swordsman killed Moleman (Jackalope spawned)

Reactive Shenlong disenganged from Marcus, moved and dropped Scheme Marker for Convict Labor.

Night Terror and TT Bro are still enganged.

I managed to deny him a Convict Labor Point

Moleman #2 sits between my Scheme Markers to deny my Convict Labor

Raptor lands next to Sensei Yu

Guard the Stash: 2 Exhaust Their Forces: 0 Convict Labor: 1 
Guard the Stash: 2 Catch & Release: 2 Convict Labor: 0

 

ROUND 4

I won initiative with a 12 against a 3

Yu killed Raptor
Marcus killed Yu in return
Shenlong placed Scheme Marker for Convict Labor
Sabertooth killed LRM
Night Terror managed to kill the TT Bro with Severe DMG on a  flip (Unlucky me had no model at the Stash Marker)

Lone Swordsman had to change his plans and return to the left Stash Marker (killed Jackalope before that)

Guard the Stash: 3 Exhaust Their Forces: 0 Convict Labor: 1 
Guard the Stash: 2 Catch & Release: 3 Convict Labor: 0

ROUND 5

Shenlong activated and moved between Cerberung and Marcus (to the right Stash Marker)

Cerberus leaped away to deny the markers I placed with Shenlong

Emissary moved to the Stash Marker through the forest.

Marcus was able to hit Shenlong several times but he had still 3 wounds left.

We ended the game at this Point because I had no chance to score Convict Labor.  

FINAL SCORE 6/6

I'm sorry for my bad Battle Reporting but I hope you guys got an insight of how I play Shenlong. If you still have any questions feel free to ask

[Mutter]

Didn't mind the format/style, was easy enough to follow. Thanks for that ...

[InvokeChaos]

Nice report. The Joss reactivate steal was fantastic.