Jaakuna / Drowned Combo for Molly? [now just general Molly questions]

[Mister Feral]

I would quite to use Jaakuna and several Drowned as a basis for a [casual] Spirit Molly crew - would this be a feasible idea? I'm quite keen on the "drowned" theme that they both have.

As far as I figured, Jaakume / Drowned synergise well together as a "tarpit", where I could also use Rotten Belles or Dead Doxies set up behind them to pull enemies into  Jaakuna's hazardous terrain ability. The Drowned could then use Riptide or Drag Under to pull enemies towards Jaakuna as well.

Any thoughts? Would this be a feasible play style at all?

[MilwaukeeBeast]

I've tried that set-up a few times. When it works, it works great; hazardous terrain at +1dmg can really add up, stick decaying aura (?? the upgrade that deals 2dmg if an enemy starts and ends its activation in the aura) on Jaakuna for more fun. On the other hand though, jaakuna tends to be a bit squishy and can be taken down pretty easy under concentrated fire; i also have trouble maneuvering her into position effectively, and im using belles/doxies to move her when they should be moving my opponent.

[thebarbalag]

Functional, sure. Drowned are pretty hilarious tarpits all on their own. Jaakuna makes them a little scarier, and harder to get away from. With Molly, especially, it's easy enough just to drop a Drowned down in the middle of melee.

[Mister Feral]

In a pinch, Molly with Forgotten Path could use a 0 action to make Jaakuna move if needed?

I also figured if Jaakuna and Drowned could bunch up a couple enemies close to them, it would be a lot easier for Molly to summon in as well!

Edited August 18, 2016 by Mister Feral

[Fetid Strumpet]

Define Feasible. 

I use Jaakuna as one of the flex spots in one of my Seamus lists, and she works well for what I use her for. I'm not sure I'd actually try to build a list that actually specifically uses that combo as a focus of a competitive list for a few reasons. 

1) First, it's obvious, and has a lynchpin model. Anyone with any experience with Malifaux is going to see this coming a mile away once you plunk it on the table, so they know they'll have to deal with it, and they'll be able to because:

2) Jaakuna is a Lynchpin to this crew, and she isn't all that hard to kill. Once Jaakuna dies, you're left with Drowned and Belles and Doxies. So the question is, do you feel a list with Belles, Doxies, and Drowned is workable? Because Jaakuna will last all of about 5 seconds once you reveal your list.

That isn't to say you shouldn't play this list, just that if you are asking if this is a competitive list that as a focus of the list attempts to execute the combo above, you are going to get steamrolled against any decent opponent. My personal philosophy is when you design a list you want to make sure the list has all the tools you need to get any particular job done. Scheme running, multiple activations after each other, blasts, synergy, killers, resiliency and so on. Once you get your machine working, then you can see if incidentally you have combos you can pull off, but I think building for them specifically is a trap most of the time.

I'd suggest a better approach, perhaps, would be to see about designing your Molly list with Jakuuna in it, so that she serves a function other than as a lynchpin, and then if the circumstances are right, summon in some drowned to assist in doing this, rather than designing the whole list around it.

[Mister Feral]

I see what you mean, very informative!

I am in no way a competitive player, but from my couple previous Molly games I clearly had no idea what I was doing - hence going back to the drawing board to work out some form of synergy!

If I removed the Drowned from the initial list and summoned them instead (if a Jaakuna tarpit could be pulled off), what would you replace them with?

Here's a list of models I have;

Philip and the Nanny
Toshiro
3 Ashigaru
3 Rotten Belles
2 Dead Doxies
3 Crooligans
3 Necropunks
3 Drowned
3 Punk Zombies

I was also interested in some of the shooty Outcast mercs (Sue / Convict Gunslingers). Could one of those fill in the gap left by the Drowned?

[Lizzy Lovecraft]

I'm calling this one "Molly's Pool Party".  'Cause I'm stupid.

Molly is gonna use corpse markers.  I know, right, what!?!  The spirits will play their own game of Marco Polo, she'll make more Drowned as needed.

I don't know if it will work, haven't played it yet (cause I lack opponents), but I needed to get those new minions in a Molly crew somewhere, and it's got scheme-dropping, horde-making, murder-hobo potential, IMHO.

Resurrectionists
50ss Crew

Molly Squidpiddge -- 7ss
 +Forgotten Path - 1ss
 +Corpse Bloat - 2ss

Datsue Ba - 8ss
 +Spirit Whispers - 1ss
 +Spirit Beacon - 2ss

Shieldbearer - 6ss

Shieldbearer - 6ss

Shieldbearer - 6ss

Jaakuna Ubume - 6ss
 +Unnerving Aura - 1ss

The Drowned - 6ss

 

P.S. Would probably work better with Kirai.....

[Mister Feral]

Not sure how that relates to my question? ?

[lusciousmccabe]

11 hours ago, Mister Feral said:

Not sure how that relates to my question? ?

Unfortunately while the quote function is good for letting people know you're responding to their posts by there's equivalent to show you are not replying to whatever the last post was.

[Mister Feral]

27 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Unfortunately while the quote function is good for letting people know you're responding to their posts by there's equivalent to show you are not replying to whatever the last post was.

I'm not quite sure I understand you there to be honest!

 

[lusciousmccabe]

Lizzy Lovecraft's post doesn't relate to your question is what I'm saying. People tend to use these threads for general discussion of the topic as well.

[Mister Feral]

Anyway, general question for Fetid Strumpet or other Molly players;

What if I removed the pair of Drowned and replaced them with Philip & The Nanny and a Crooligan for scheme running / denial?

As a Spirit, P&tN can benefit from Molly's Forgotten Path upgrade (the free 1AP action) to get moved into position quickly (with an extra 2" as well!).

The Crooligan is a Horror so will have to loiter away from we've robe else to drop / claim outward markers.

[Mister Feral]

30 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Lizzy Lovecraft's post doesn't relate to your question is what I'm saying. People tend to use these threads for general discussion of the topic as well.

Gotcha!

[Lizzy Lovecraft]

okay, so I upset someone by going slightly off-topic and wasting thirty seconds of their life, so several more posts to discuss it makes sense.

Anyways, what I'm saying is;  Rather than focus on the Jaakuna/Drowned combo for your crew build.  Make a general, all-around crew to achieve your strats and schemes.  Since you want to use the Jaakuna/Drowned mechanic, and have recognized Molly as being good for that with Forgotten Path, remember, that one of the things that make Molly is so great is that she can summon what is needed, when needed, without corpses, right in the enemies' midst, which is where the combo will take effect.  So Just play around with spirit models in general.  Popping Drowned out when needed.  Moving Jaakuna when necassery.  Summoning isn't the easiest thing in this game, as you usually have to trade higher cards and stones for what you want (unless you're Ramos), and Drowned are fairly expensive, requiring a 10, so models that can make you stones would be a great help.

[FacelessOne]

I use the combo with Jack daw but it translate well. What really makes the combo shine is Anna Lovelace. She stops enemy models from pushing out of the tarpit, and can shoot into engagement without randomizing leading to quicker model elimination.

[Mister Feral]

24 minutes ago, Lizzy Lovecraft said:

okay, so I upset someone by going slightly off-topic and wasting thirty seconds of their life, so several more posts to discuss it makes sense.

Anyways, what I'm saying is;  Rather than focus on the Jaakuna/Drowned combo for your crew build.  Make a general, all-around crew to achieve your strats and schemes.  Since you want to use the Jaakuna/Drowned mechanic, and have recognized Molly as being good for that with Forgotten Path, remember, that one of the things that make Molly is so great is that she can summon what is needed, when needed, without corpses, right in the enemies' midst, which is where the combo will take effect.  So Just play around with spirit models in general.  Popping Drowned out when needed.  Moving Jaakuna when necassery.  Summoning isn't the easiest thing in this game, as you usually have to trade higher cards and stones for what you want (unless you're Ramos), and Drowned are fairly expensive, requiring a 10, so models that can make you stones would be a great help.

I didn't mean to sound rude! I can barely get my head around Mollu working with Wave 1/2/3 models let alone anything new for Wave 4!

Your advice sounds pretty good (it's what I've been told in A Wyrd Place as well).

I'm now considering this 35ss list;

Molly (Forgotten Path)

Philip and the Nanny (Take Back the Night)

Jaakuna Ubume (Unnerving Aura)

2 * Rotten Belle

Crooligan

4ss spare so max 7ss for Molly.

Take Back the Night on P&tN should help cycle cards to be able to get those 10+ cards for summoning Drowned (Molly can soulstone the Crow if needed).

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'd try this instead, personally.

Resurrectionists - 35ss Crew

Molly Squidpiddge -- 7SS Cache
+Take Back The Night - 1ss
+Forgotten Path - 1ss

• Graveyard Spirit - 3ss
• Izamu The Armor - 10ss
• Jaakuna Ubume - 6ss
• Rotten Belle - 5ss
• Rotten Belle - 5ss 

[Mister Feral]

25 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I'd try this instead, personally.

Resurrectionists - 35ss Crew

Molly Squidpiddge -- 7SS Cache
+Take Back The Night - 1ss
+Forgotten Path - 1ss

• Graveyard Spirit - 3ss
• Izamu The Armor - 10ss
• Jaakuna Ubume - 6ss
• Rotten Belle - 5ss
• Rotten Belle - 5ss 

Can't say I'm massively fond of Izamu. ?

I far prefer the "creepy undead" Spirits more than the Asian-inspired ones.

[Fetid Strumpet]

You were asking for competitive suggestions. Izamu is one of the Resser's more competitive options, and has amazing synergy with spirit Molly. There simply  isn't a better spirit for Molly to actually hire at the beginning of the game in my opinion. If you are more interested in fluff, that's totally cool, but that wasn't your request at the beginning of the thread. You asked for help in a competitive build. My personal feeling is that if you are playing spirit Molly, at any level, the two first automatic hires are the Graveyard Spirit, and Izamu. 

I'd personally suggest if the only reason you don't like him is his model, I'd convert your own personal one who looks better to you, like an undead spirit knight in medieval armor.

That's just my personal suggestion as someone who has been abusing the hell out of Spirit Molly pretty much since her open beta. Of course YMMV. If you are mostly interested in the casual play of the game more than the competitive, then just toss Izamu out the window and use whom you like.

[Mister Feral]

I should of specified from the beginning that I'm not a competitive player!

I mainly wanted to find out synergy options so I can build a list that doesn't lose me every game I play (which is how poorly I've played recently!).

After pondering about it, I've decided to leave Jaakuna for a potential Jack Daw crew, and run a simple almost out-of-the-box Molly Horror list so I can best learn the basics of those models (mostly P&tN, Crooligans and Rotten Belles / Dead Doxies)!

If I've taken one thing away from this discussion, it is that if Molly can summon a Minion, it's best not to hire it at the start of the game?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Not really true at all. It is a common, and in my opinion false, narrative that often gets told to new players. 

The reason certain models are better summoned in is either because they are too slow to be used effectively for the role they are intended to fill, or because their role is so narrow you never know if hiring them will be worth it.

I think, barring outright flubbing building your list, which I don't think is the case here, a better way to look at doing better really analyzing what it takes to get VPs in the game, and wen playing the game ruthlessly do whatever you have to to gain them, rather than attempting to combat the enemy crew as a focus.

You fight and kill enemy models to make it easier for you to gain VP and to make it harder for them. If a particular engagement or course of action in the game does nether avoid doing it. 

[Mister Feral]

That does make sense.

Things like Crooligans are good from the get-go, whilst melee specialists like Punk Zombies or Drowned should be summoned into prime combat position?

[sinistercats]

On 8/19/2016 at 2:14 PM, Fetid Strumpet said:

I'd try this instead, personally.

Resurrectionists - 35ss Crew

Molly Squidpiddge -- 7SS Cache
+Take Back The Night - 1ss
+Forgotten Path - 1ss

• Graveyard Spirit - 3ss
• Izamu The Armor - 10ss
• Jaakuna Ubume - 6ss
• Rotten Belle - 5ss
• Rotten Belle - 5ss 

Fetid- how would you extend this to 50 for "king of the hill" schemes?

[Sholto]

I tend to view Molly as my "combo". In other words I don't try and find a cool combo with her crew, because the purpose of such a combo is almost always to combat the enemy. That's usually Molly's job in most crews I hire. Molly is an aggressive summoner and an excellent distraction piece. With a little support she can take on just about anything and gum up the enemy crew with summons and debuffs and out-of-activation Actions.

Her crew should be all about getting VPs, and any support they can give her is a bonus. Except for Sybelle, who is such good support for Molly it would be shame to waste her running elsewhere around the table.

The only outright combo I do which does not really involve Molly at all is the Murder Box, which is like Jaakuna, but better. You drop a Scheme Marker in a group of Belles and put up Shafted on a Crooked Man. Then your Belles Lure one key enemy model after another onto the Scheme Marker. The Carrion Emissary puts the Belles on plus flips for Lures and Pounce attacks (enemy Riders beware) and also blocks other enemy models from getting into your crew before you're ready for them with its Shard markers. Then hire Johan to Flurry on whatever the Belles Lure in and fail to kill, and you can wipe out anything. Molly plays frontline distraction, slowing down the enemy crew more so that your Murder Box has room to play. It only works in certain Scheme and Strat combinations, but when you get them it is horrible. In the best way

[Mister Feral]

Since I've got a load of Belles and Horror minions already, I'm just gonna chuck down some Rotten Belles / Dead Doxies, a Crooligan as well as Philip & the Nanny on the table, and summon what I need from there.

Another question; Guild Autopsies - hire or summon?