Wave 4: Theory Faux

[trikk]

She`s like a Frank without upgrades

[Hagisman]

So with Nellie on the field I've come across a few things that might affect the upgrades I take with her.

Guild Funds - Rating 2 out of 5 stars

Currently a trap for me. Nellie doesn't need as much evidence as you think. If you are using her AP to do Scathing Review a lot, have a bunch of Reporters giving out their condition, or Witchling Stallkers it might be worth it for the taking claim for dying by condition. Other than that building Evidence is hard when you use it for her abilities like Misleading Headlines to skip activations and Propaganda.

If you are lucky Propaganda won't even need the extra evidence as it's already awesome in its own right. A minor damaging attack that can trigger an extra attack from a beefier model.

Embedded - 3 out of 5 stars

A bit of a trap, but not as much as Guild Funds. Nellie doesn't need the trigger to ignore her burning on "Hot off the Presses!". The main thing is she can hire up to 4 mercenary models without any tax. This leads to her having the ability to take 5 of the Xroad7(Greed is Guild so not a Merc). In particular this boils down to how many good lists with Merc can synergize well with her.

Misleading Headlines - 4 out of 5 stars

Being able to skip activations hits hard early on, but later in the game this ability becomes very situational. The only time I find this worthwhile is if my opponent needs me to get within range before he does something like Charge or Drop Scheme Markers for Detonate the charges.

Delegation - 5 out of 5 stars

There are a lot of Guild models especially Henchmen with Hard to Kill. Not only does this give them fast, but also can heal them. Fast on Grimwell, Frank, and other henchmen adds a lot of combos. Grimwell himself finally can take a focused Lobotomy attack which he has been wanting to do forever ago.

That being said I'm going to try to see how Nellie is if I just take Delegation without her other upgrades.

[Ryin]

I cannot see any situation in which she is NOT taking Delegation, honestly. Even if it only gave out fast, it's still so worth it in a game where AP control is king. I haven't used Guild Funds yet int he two games I have played with her, but I also haven't used reporters either (they are not put together)

And so far Misleading headline is good if only for the first turn. If I have 7-8 cards to start out a turn, I don't mind dropping half my hand to let the other player move half his crew. There's nothing better on the first turn than losing initiative and being told to go and seeing the look on my opponent's face when I tell them I pass. (it'll be sad when those looks of shock wear off due to familiarity though >.<)

I've brought Hannah and a Performer twice with Embedded and haven't been disappointed. Next time I need to remember to bring Sue. With Nellie's ability to heal and give out fast, that's basically 9 cards a turn with Hannah and Printing Press. Plus a potentially fast Sue.

[Ludvig]

 

I cannot see any situation in which she is NOT taking Delegation, honestly. Even if it only gave out fast, it's still so worth it in a game where AP control is king. I haven't used Guild Funds yet int he two games I have played with her, but I also haven't used reporters either (they are not put together)

And so far Misleading headline is good if only for the first turn. If I have 7-8 cards to start out a turn, I don't mind dropping half my hand to let the other player move half his crew. There's nothing better on the first turn than losing initiative and being told to go and seeing the look on my opponent's face when I tell them I pass. (it'll be sad when those looks of shock wear off due to familiarity though >.<)

I've brought Hannah and a Performer twice with Embedded and haven't been disappointed. Next time I need to remember to bring Sue. With Nellie's ability to heal and give out fast, that's basically 9 cards a turn with Hannah and Printing Press. Plus a potentially fast Sue.

A few threats with a potential to strike deep into the enemy lines on turn 1 and then passing 3-4 activations so the enemy needs to play cautiously seems well worth a few low cards.

[Manic Mouse]

Guild funds pays for itself in turn 1/2 where you can very easily get stones back from it.

You should be using scathing review at the start of the game, it starts your evidence engine. If you can use it twice turn 1 (by having another model like a reporter drop a scheme marker beside Nellie allowing her to push 6", then move 5" putting you 17" in with a 10" range with 2AP to attack with turn 1) you can spend two stones to make sure it goes off twice and get them back at the end of the turn. Then those models have to give you 2 evidence the next turn (or continue to take damage) and will give you a free heal or maybe even another 2 stones back.

Guild Funds is an auto include IMO. If you play Nellie as an evidence engine it will pay for itself many times over in stones and heals, more importantly getting both without spending any AP. In my first match with Nellie it netted me 4 stones and two heals (4 wounds). So 4 stones and 4 damage healed for 1SS, all without spending a single AP - that is an auto include.

My opponent never got to attack Nellie, but if they did the free evidence from the trigger again is golden. And it allows her to claim kills from assaulted, humiliation and her burning 3.

So yeah - I don't understand why people don't love it. It gives you a free Df trigger for evidence, allows you to claim the kills from your conditions and pays for itself many times over in free heals and even soul stones. All without requiring a single AP.

[Manic Mouse]

Incidentally does anyone know how many stones Allison Dade is?

[trikk]

Same as Frank.

 

Guild Funds is ok, but its less required than Delegation and Misleading Headlines and when someone wants Embedded you have to switch something and I think Guild Funds falls first.

[Manic Mouse]

 

Same as Frank.

 

Guild Funds is ok, but its less required than Delegation and Misleading Headlines and when someone wants Embedded you have to switch something and I think Guild Funds falls first.

See I feel embedded is probably the weakest of her upgrades in what it actually gets you. I'm sure there are some whacky builds that make it useful, but the reporters are so awesome and the guild has no shortage of great beaters for Propaganda that I don't feel embedded is nearly as good as Guild Funds for general use.

If you want to hire 4 mercs then yeah it's good I guess. If you're taking 2 or fewer mercs then Guild Funds is the better option since you can easily get 2ss back (making it BETTER than embedded) plus all the other bonuses.

If you have some interesting list that requires 4 mercs - take embedded. If you don't then Guild Funds is far better.

EDIT: My list

Nellie - misleading headlines, delegation and guild funds

Printing Press

Phiona - wrath of the guild and lead lined coat (H2K, armour and healing is gross)

Franc - wade in and lead lined coat (again, with healing this is gross and can you say Df 9 Phiona?)

Papa Loco - is disgusting with Nellie. She can with Guild Funds give him hardto kill. She can move him in with propaganda and give him fast with delegation. Then he companion activates and blows up three times before killing himself and blowing up again. Again this is gross.

Reporters X 3 - to run your schemes while the opponent can't deal with the unkillable Franc and Phiona and Papa has blown up half their crew.

[trikk]

Thats how it goes. If you go 3 or 4 mercs you go Embedded.

[Ryin]

I only have taken Embedded with taking two mercs.

It's worth it for a duty free Hannah. I'm thinking about adding in a Sue along with my performer so I am getting 3 extra cards a turn plus a Fast (and fully healed) Sue every other turn. (at least).

I haven't tried running her as a Evidence engine, but I haven't felt like I have been missing much. 1-2 Evidence a turn has been enough for me to work with

[icebreaker]

As for me Hanna is must have. with Embedded or not 

[trikk]

 

I only have taken Embedded with taking two mercs.

It's worth it for a duty free Hannah. I'm thinking about adding in a Sue along with my performer so I am getting 3 extra cards a turn plus a Fast (and fully healed) Sue every other turn. (at least).

I haven't tried running her as a Evidence engine, but I haven't felt like I have been missing much. 1-2 Evidence a turn has been enough for me to work with

With two mercs Embedded just basically saves you an SS. Wouldn`t it be better to have her with Guild funds simply?

 

As for me Hanna is must have. with Embedded or not 

The double Arcane Reservoir is nice but I wouldn`t call her necessary. I think overall Anna has better synergy with the crew as she blocks places and pushes.

 

[Ryin]

I haven't had to use a ton of stones for Nellie. I mostly use them for prevention flips on Phiona (which even is negated a bit by Nellie's fast trigger heal). I don't use them for cards since Nellie can use any card and I have 8 in hand. I don't need them for suits thanks to her shenanigans and I rarely use them for flips in general. (my luck can count on wasting a stone to flip two low cards) I use cards for misleading headlines (because I am drawing 8 with Hannah) and the 1-2 evidence I get a turn is plenty to do anything else I need to do. In the two games I've played her, I've yet to cast Scathing review.

Plus, card draw is a very big deal in Malifaux. Sometimes having more cards is better than having one more soul stone. (it often is, I'd say. Generally if you have the right crad you don't NEED the stone)

So, I find my two duty free mercs for the price of 1 merc money well spent.

I've also pondered bringing Aionus. don't think I want to bring him AND Hannah, but he could be interesting. Nellie usually has cards to ditch for his own fast bubble. Giving the whole crew fast on turn one could be interesting. Nellie has ways to give people fast AND slow and if I bring a death marshal recruiter there might be some synergy there.

Or even taking Hannah, Anna and a couple of Ronin. With reporters having a main force that's not chargeable and having Hanna and Anna as back up could be fun.

Just in general the option to have duty free mercenaries is too enticing to pass up and I haven't really been particularly excited to try out Guild Funds.

[trikk]

I think I`d take them mostly for the Heal/HtK. Peacekeeper with A Numb to the World, those heals and possible HtK can be a real beast

I would consider Guild Funds for Headhunter (as you can claim condition kills) and with Neutralize the Leader in the Pool (you can get hit once to get the evidence and then use Run away from the truth)

[admiralvorkraft]

Nellie actually makes Ronin quite fun. They might be my favorite Embedded hire so far (not the "best" mind, but my favorite).

[Hidelfon]

 

Nellie actually makes Ronin quite fun. They might be my favorite Embedded hire so far (not the "best" mind, but my favorite).

Could you elaborate? Please

I am quite curious 

[admiralvorkraft]

They have Disguised (same as the Reporters) so against some crews you can set up a wall that will be hard to get through. HtK and their (0) action mean that you can farm a ton of soulstones out of them if you care to. And importantly they have Flurry ignoring armor with a trigger for positives to damage.

So you push them with the trigger on Propaganda, give them Fast and heal with Delegation, and they've got an 11" threat range to Flurry or a 17" with a charge.

[icebreaker]

 

The double Arcane Reservoir is nice but I wouldn`t call her necessary. I think overall Anna has better synergy with the crew as she blocks places and pushes.

+ Not easy, but Fast Hanna with "debt" can to draw a card, copy "Look out", and deal 4 atacks with 3/5b/7bb damage line, or 2 focused attacks. If you did this, definatly someone, I think someone's crew dies

[trikk]

Hannah min damage is 2, so with Debt is 3/5b/7bb. 

Thats 11SS + Embedded or 12SS with merc tax. I think a lot of models in Guild hit as hard or harder with A Debt to the Guild.

 

Of course this is not a bad combo in any way. I currently prefer a Peacekeeper but once I get Hannah I might change my mind