Bigger Hat Than Dreamer

[Hateful Darkblack]

This came up at Califaux! (We managed through it anyway, and did a card flip) but I wanted to ask!

If Somer Teeth uses Bigger Hat Than You on Dreamer, and the Dreamer redirects it to a Daydream, what happens?

(Bigger Hat Than You affects a target Leader, but makes both crews discard their hands. The Dreamer's trigger can redirect attacks to a nearby Nightmare.)

I am pretty sure that it either works all the same, or fizzles, but I don't know which! Thoughts? Insights?

[solkan]

The crew's leader model isn't given any special consideration in the rules as far which model in the crew is considered to be holding the crew's hand, or being able to access the crew's crews.  The player's hand and the cards are a common, shared resource.  After all, any member of the crew can draw or discard cards.

That means that the targeting restriction on Bigger Hat Than You pretty much just has to exist in order to make it more difficult to declare the action.

So redirecting Bigger Hat Than You should function normally--both crews discard their hands.

 

[Adran]

The targetting requirement of Bigger hat is that you must target the enemy leader. 

If an ability changes the target, and doesn't require the targeting requirements to be re-checked, then the abiltiy will carry on regardless. So in this case, the dreamer shifts the target to a daydream. Then both Sommer and the daydream discard their hands. 

From the FAQ

8) Q: The Dreamer’s Safe In My Bed Trigger allows a Nightmare to suffer the effects of an Attack Action as if it had been the target. Does the Nightmare need to be a valid target of the Attack? Does the Dreamer still suffer the effects of the Attack? How does this work with Attack Triggers that cause more Actions such as Onslaught?
A: The Dreamer will not suffer the effects as the Nightmare is doing so instead. The Nightmare does not need to be a valid target of the Attack. If the Attack Triggers additional Attacks which must be made “against the same target” (such as with Onslaught) then the Nightmare will be the target of those Attacks. If the Nightmare is not a valid target for additional Attacks, they may not be made.

[decker_cky]

General protection fault, the game crashes, and you have to restart the game.

[teegee]

Wasn't there a Jacob lynch brilliance issue with something similar. Dreamer passing the attack off to a model without brillance. And was faq'd

Q: Does a model need to have the Brilliance Characteristic to be a valid target for Jakob Lynch’s Final Debt?
A: Final Debt states, “Target model with the Brilliance Characteristic...” so, yes, the target must have Brilliance to be valid.

 

Same vein of entirely off base?

[tomjoad]

1 minute ago, decker_cky said:

General protection fault, the game crashes, and you have to restart the game.

Sure sure, naturally, but let's say it was a tournament game with timed rounds and etc. 

[lusciousmccabe]

6 hours ago, teegee said:

Wasn't there a Jacob lynch brilliance issue with something similar. Dreamer passing the attack off to a model without brillance. And was faq'd

Q: Does a model need to have the Brilliance Characteristic to be a valid target for Jakob Lynch’s Final Debt?
A: Final Debt states, “Target model with the Brilliance Characteristic...” so, yes, the target must have Brilliance to be valid.

 

Same vein of entirely off base?

That discussion featured the Dreamer (IIRC) but was more focused on Burt Jebsen's Trigger which says the new target needs to be legal. The Dreamer doesn't care if the model is a legal target or not so Bigger Hat than you will go off on the new target.

I believe that means you will need to discard your hand even though the new target isn't a leader, since that bit has been essentially voided. If anyone can dig up that Jacob Lynch thread it might make things a little bit clearer.