Breaking Engagement with incorporeal Models

[Flib Jib]

Hello All,

 

I have been reading the rules and FAQ's and I think they are fairly clear on this topic but I wanted to ask the community and see what they think and if there is anything else that I am missing. 

 

So if two models are engaged there are several ways of breaking engagement without walking and risking a successful Disengaging Strike. to list a few there are, Push, Lure, Paralyze the opponent model, and others.

 

But here is one that caught my eye and sounds like a fun one that I have to keep wary of. 

 

In the rules it says both models are considered engaged if one or more of them are within their melee range AND line of site. LoS is the big one, the FAQ's talk about a model walking around a corner to break LoS while staying in the opponents melee bubble. This according to the FAQ's will break engagement.

 

So here's the Rules Lawyer in me coming out. Do walls bread the 2" melee bubble. I would not think so because of how the FAQ's worded their similar example. if not, than any model with incorporeal could walk through a wall as long as the melee range encapsulated the wall which was walked through. but if the melee range stops at the wall than that might be considered as breaking engagement and the opponent would be able to take a Disengaging Strike.

 

What do you guys think? I have illustrated my example below. Please feel free to ask any questions if I have left anything ambiguous. 

 

[santaclaws01]

If the wall is blocking then it blocks LoS, so the daydream in your picture would be able to take that first walk action, then at the start of it's second walk it would no longer be engaged. Nothing "stops" a models engagement range.

[MrDeathTrout]

Yep, totally legal. I've used this before.  I haven't done this often, but when I do I usually use other models to break LoS.  If my TT Archer is engaged by Enemy X then I move Model Y in between them blocking all LoS an the TT Archer is no longer engaged.  On the TT Archers activation it can then either walk away or since it ignores other models for LoS, and doesn't randomize when shooting into engagement it can shoot Enemy X through its own model.  This can be a nasty surprise when someone thinks they've neutralized your archer by engaging it.

[solkan]

FAQ Entry #45:

Quote

45) Q: If two models are engaged, and one of them wishes to take a Walk Action which will result in it no longer being in LoS of the model it is engaged with (without actually leaving the engagement range) will this provoke a disengaging strike?

A: No. Disengaging strikes only occur if the model intends to leave the engagement range. Although the models will no longer be engaged once their LoS to each other is broken, no disengaging strike occurs unless the model is also leaving the engagement range.

You don't need to be incorporeal to have a wall break engagement by blocking line of sight, you just need a lot more conveniently located walls.

Also, melee range doesn't stop at blocking terrain.  And there are enough instances of models that can ignore line of sight while making attacks, and thus make melee attacks in spite of things like intervening blocking terrain.

Edit:  And, because this is a nice discussion of the matter:

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by solkan

[Flib Jib]

12 hours ago, solkan said:

Also, melee range doesn't stop at blocking terrain.  And there are enough instances of models that can ignore line of sight while making attacks, and thus make melee attacks in spite of things like intervening blocking terrain.

May I ask for clarification, are you saying that terrain, (blocking or non,) doesn't affect melee combat? I can find stated in the rules several times that "Engagement" absolutely requires LoS, but nothing about melee. 

I checked the rules and couldn't find anything about melee attack action requirements specifically. Lots of rules for engagement, shooting, combat, but nothing on the melee attack requirements in detail.  Unless I overlooked it, I don't see rulings on terrain, blocking or non, and how it affects melee. 

I don't want to defer to common sense or intuitive feelings because that's not how rules work. Can you reference an example or a page in the rules to help clarify?

[lusciousmccabe]

Melee actions that require a target need line of sight.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Thimblesage said:

I don't want to defer to common sense or intuitive feelings because that's not how rules work. Can you reference an example or a page in the rules to help clarify?

Please see the thread that I linked earlier.

 

 

[Flib Jib]

Thanks