Molly Noob

[Jugan0ght]

Hi everyone.

Recent changed from Neverborn to Ressers. 

I'm enjoying using Mcmourning and Seamus but I want to try a summoner but I have been struggling to find a lot of advice on starting . Molly seems to be a very different type of master/summoner. 

Does anyone have advice for a newbee other then reading pullmyfinger

[Fetid Strumpet]

Depends, How deep is your resser model pool, and did you want to run her as a Horror or Spirit Master?

General guidelines would be to really practice and understand how to use your control hand. Molly is one of, if not the most card hungry masters there is. So figuring out how to balance her control hand for Defense, Offense and Summoning can be tricky.

If you are going Horror Molly then you'll want Yin, Punk Zombies, The Drowned and the University of Transmortis. You'll also potentially want Killjoy and a Rogue Necromancy as options.

If you are going Spirit Molly you'll want The Hanged, Shikome, Onryo, Night Terrors, 5 Seishin, a Graveyard Spirit and The Drowned. You'll also probably want Datsue-Ba and Izamu as well. Well, you'll absolutely want Izamu.

You'll also want Madam Sybelle as well in either case. You won't bring her every time, but her ability to move molly around via Calle Belle, as well as boost Molly's Movement is very useful.

From my experience, currently, Spirit Molly is vastly stronger than Horror Molly, as you can summon the Hanged, and Spirits boost each other's effectiveness through the Adversary condition. You also can get really good use out of the Graveyard Spirit. Horror Molly is still a good option and has advantages as well as you can use a killjoy bomb, and Punk Zombies are great summons as they can take 2 AP to remove if you are able to summon them in above 1 wound, and they help mitigate somewhat the downside of being so hand hungry by getting an inbuilt positive to attacks without having to get a condition on the opponent.   

[Jugan0ght]

This is a great reply. Thanks Fetid. 

In answer to that I have the whole faction minute Guild autopsies and Night terrors. 

 

I think the horror list is the way im going but I do love the hanged. 

[Mikey_C]

23 hours ago, Jugan0ght said:

I think the horror list is the way im going but I do love the hanged. 

Much to the chagrin of most resser players you could always... you know....hire one.

Even if you go horror Molly you can still use your 0 to give the  hanged reactivate. You just have to be careful with it's placement so it doesn't suffer from friendly black blood.

 

Also my 2¢ Punk Zombies are better summons than Transmortis students about 95% of the time. The only reason I think I've ever turned to students was to ignore armor or remove triggers.  to hit, hard to kill and access to Slice and Dice is just a much better option IMO.

[asrian]

On 5/17/2016 at 9:33 AM, Mikey_C said:

Also my 2¢ Punk Zombies are better summons than Transmortis students about 95% of the time. The only reason I think I've ever turned to students was to ignore armor or remove triggers.  to hit, hard to kill and access to Slice and Dice is just a much better option IMO.

Same for me. I own the Transmortis set, and they are some very good models (The Valedictorian is an excellent henchman in her own right), but when I run Horror Molly I typically summon in Drowned, Punk Zombies, or Dead Doxies/Belles (Mainly for movement shenanigans as needed). On a rare occasional I'll summon a student if I have a single, specific target that I need to hit, for either armor bypass or for their built in positives.

I have only played one game of Spirit Molly, and while I found it quite strong, I haven't had enough experience with it to give advise vs the Horror set (which is my go-to style with her, mainly due to familiarity). Spirit Molly is Fetid's preference, however, so I defer to him if you have any questions on that side of her.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Clarification:

Mechanically spirit Molly is my preference.

Thematically I prefer Horror, but being able to summon and then Accomplice activate a Hanged is one of te more powerful options Ressers have at their disposal.

[benjoewoo]

I agree with Fetid that spirit Molly is stronger, for a few reasons, which I am unsure others will agree with:

1. The summonable spirits have a printed SS cost of: 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9. The summonable horrors cost: 4, 6, 7, and 8. The increased range of summons means spirit Molly can just more easily summon different minions without as high of cards. I've included the 6 in both lists because the drowned is both a horror and a spirit, and not a belle, which Molly can summon by default.

2. Spirit Molly can summon a Hanged, arguably one of the scariest resser minions generally speaking, Molly's accomplice ability aside. At current time, the strongest horror minion is a student attacking the appropriate target, e.g. student of steel vs. construct. Punk zombies might be scarier generally speaking, but they provide less damage output than Hanged against larger units and single targets, and they do less damage than students attacking appropriate targets.

3. Of the enforcers, spirit Molly synergizes on keyword with Izamu and Jakuuna Umube. Horror Molly synergizes on keyword with Yin and Rogue Necromancy. Because enforcers tend to be situation dependent, not necessarily seeing a clear advantage going one way or the other, but Izamu tends to make it into more people's lists than the other 3, given his fairly good melee combat abilities.

4. Of the henchmen, spirit Molly has Datsue-ba. Horror Molly has Valedictorian. Datsue-ba is a summoning henchmen that can be an off beater and is an exceptional scheme runner support. Valedictorian is a fairly standard tarpit that does fairly good damage, but is a 10SS henchmen, which is expensive because Molly wants 7SS every game for summoning.

5. Spirits currently have built in synergy to each other, as multiple spirit models can hand out the Adversary condition, which makes it easier for other spirits to deal damage to an enemy model. Horrors currently do not have such an advantage, as they tend to be more self-oriented models. Although horror models tend to do more damage than their spirit counterparts, they do not carry natural synergy with each other in the same way.

I would have to agree that at this point, spirit Molly is mechanically stronger for the above reasons generally speaking. Horror Molly thematically matches more, especially given her lore, but it's just harder to make the case for horrors as being better barring a match up specific situation, e.g. Punk Zombies make Pandora cry.

Now, since you've purchased McM and Seamus already, if you buy Molly's box, you're more or less going to run horrors unless you purchase all the spirit models you'll need to run spirit Molly. Molly's box is a horror box, as it comes with crooligans--Phillip & the Nanny is both spirit/horror, same with Necrotic Machine. Seamus' box comes with belles and Sybelle the Bus Driver, neutral to spirit/horror Molly, but great given Sybelle's synergy with Molly, a belle, and belles being summonable by either spirit or horror Molly. McM's box also doesn't care about spirits or horrors, but nurses and the flesh construct are nice. If you purchase Nico's box, you'll have a very basic set of horrors to start play with and summon through the game, as punk zombies are great summons. 

On the other hand, purchasing Kirai's box doesn't do the same as buying Nico's box, since Kirai's box basically gives you onryo, which are not really spirit minions you want to be summoning a whole lot. Spirit Molly will be financially more expensive, as you'll need to buy datsue-ba, hanged, etc. separately. If finances will matter, horror molly is relatively cheaper and easier to do, especially since you basically just need punk zombies and university of transmortis outside of the Molly box and what you own already. You can pretty easily pick up 2nd hand punk zombies cheap, though the university box will likely have to be purchased new, as most people buy the box for the students, not valedictorian.

Hope that helps.

[Mikey_C]

2 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

3. Of the enforcers, spirit Molly synergizes on keyword with Izamu and Jakuuna Umube. Horror Molly synergizes on keyword with Yin and Rogue Necromancy. Because enforcers tend to be situation dependent, not necessarily seeing a clear advantage going one way or the other, but Izamu tends to make it into more people's lists than the other 3, given his fairly good melee combat abilities.

You've left out that Killjoy. He is a Horror mercenary and with Molly's summoning ability he's very easy to bring out into place where you want him.

I think it's worth mentioning as a point in favour of Horror Molly.

[Munindk]

I havent tried it, but since Killjoy has the Black Blood ability himself, there's actually not reason he shouldnt work just as well with Spirit Molly.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Molly can't give killjoy an extra ap if she runs the spirit upgrade. Additionally, at least in my spirit builds, you at least temporarily lose access to the necrotic machine since the graveyard spirit is a good synergistic hire for her.  So you potentially lose the necrotic machine 10" summon which I find one of the parts that really makes the bomb work.

So yes, killjoy works with spirit Molly, but not as well as with Horror Molly. Pretty sure the killjoy bomb wouldn't be worth it without that extra ap, even Tara gives killjoy fast when she bombs with him.

 

[daniello_s]

General observation (from Molly's opponent perspective) - whichever road you take (Horror or Spirit) always bring Madame Sybelle with you. Her 'Call Belle' ability is absolutely mad with Molly...

[benjoewoo]

9 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

You've left out that Killjoy. He is a Horror mercenary and with Molly's summoning ability he's very easy to bring out into place where you want him.

I think it's worth mentioning as a point in favour of Horror Molly.

I did leave out Killjoy. I wish I could say it was purposeful to stay in faction, but I had a lapse in memory.

KJ brings the enforcer count for Horror Molly up to 3, while Spirit Molly still has 2, and by these numbers I mean direct keyword synergy. While Horror Molly has a higher number, I'm unsure people would necessarily agree that this equates to the enforcer category being better for Horror Molly, as you're adding a 14SS cost model that isn't particularly durable.

I'd love if Horror Molly was better than Spirit Molly, because I like it much better thematically. Unfortunately, in my tastes anyway, when the master doesn't favor any particular keyword heavily (e.g. Seamus, Molly), spirit models will fill out the crews nicely because they bring pretty much the same variety of costs and abilities (e.g. Wp duels, decent melee, range, etc.) but with some added synergy from adversary, Datsue-ba, and available spirit oriented upgrades. 

[Munindk]

It might be worth mentioning the Carrion Emissary and his Conflux of Horror upgrade. It grants all friendly undead in a bubble the Horror characteristic, opening up Horror Mollys hiring pool and making Maniacal Laugh interesting.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Except the emissary doesn't get to be a horror. Not sure how I feel about that build yet. I don't like spending that many stones on a model Molly can't give an extra ap to. But as mentioned the conflux of horror could be interesting with maniacal laugh.

Carrion conflux might be generally better though. One of the reasons punk zombies are rated so highly as a summon for her is that they come with an inherent plus to attack flips. So they help put pressure on the enemy hand without requiring constant drain from Molly's. Carrion conflux gives that out automatically. Though you'll have to be careful with positioning to avoid your own black blood.

[Gypsey]

16 hours ago, Munindk said:

It might be worth mentioning the Carrion Emissary and his Conflux of Horror upgrade. It grants all friendly undead in a bubble the Horror characteristic, opening up Horror Mollys hiring pool and making Maniacal Laugh interesting.

It wouldnt open up Molly's summoning pool. That is unchanged by friendly undead becoming Horror. She needs to name a resser Horror(or Spirit) minnion model. 

[Munindk]

It doenst allow Horror Molly to summon spirits, but it will allow her to take Forgotten Life and give non-horror undead Black Blood. It makes running things like Izamu, The Hanged, Shikome or possibly Bete Noire with Horror Molly interesting. Its also a nice boost that Sybelle can have Black Blood.

I cant remember if Toshiro has the undead og horror characteristics?

[Kogan Style]

Toshiro has Undead, so would become a Horror - giving him two sources of retribution when struck in Melee (Bloated Stench and Black Blood) which would annoy SS users and Armoured targets equally as they both do 1 point of damage separately, not 2 in total.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Update: I *think* they may have achieved rough parity between the Horror and Spirit Builds for Molly. Archie gives a massive boost to Horror Molly, with her ability to give him an extra AP. And he is such a threat the opponent will have hard choices to make when deciding to deal with Archie, or try to keep the pressure on Molly to slow down her summons, if she is going that route. I still think a Summoned and then accomplice on The Hanged is Molly's most powerful option, but Archie *looks* like it helps level the field out in that respect. I think if there is an edge it is slightly still with Spirit Molly because:

1) she just got her own version of the Punk Zombie summons for Spirits, The Goryo.

2) She got a Free upgrade that makes her summoned Onryo Better.

3) Spirits still synergize with each other via Adversary better than Horrors do.

But I do think the divide is closer than it was by a long chalk.

 

[benjoewoo]

Book 4 gave Molly an 8 cost summons--Draugr. These are horrors only and have the only ability in Ressers to give other models upgrades, albeit a restricted ability.

For a 12 crow, these models can be fairly beastly, not just because they fight well with a default 3/4/5 damage track on summoning, but Molly can give AP and accomplice, making Draugr particularly efficient for her. See below:

1. Molly summons Draugr for 12 crow or 12 SS crow, enemy models take the Wp duel, potentially some damage and kills, although unlikely.

2. Molly (0)s the Draugr for a melee, Ml 6 with a 3/4/5 track. If the target dies, Draugr heals to minimum 2 Wds.

3. Molly accomplices Draugr, who can change Ht to 1 or 2 in order to attach a soul bound upgrade to someone ignoring upgrade count limits other than rare limits, e.g. Archie ammunition, or get utility value by drawing cards (yay can trip?), gaining re-activate (love the BJ), card stacking, gaining an extra AP (hooray 2/3/4 damage track), or just regular damage. All of the latter effects, available in Ht 2, can be achieved with any number of the appropriate suit by casting against Molly herself--Draugr can hit Molly with Trollskap with the ace of ram to take a free melee action against some other enemy model, a guaranteed combo since Molly must summon within 6".

One Draugr summon can get up to 3AP of fighting without re-activate, and up to 6AP of fighting with re-activate, provided it survives long enough to do so. That's pretty amazing considering horror Molly before could only give 3AP of fighting with re-activate previously.

Does it overcome an accomplice'd Hanged? Match up specific, since Draugr have an easier time finishing off units and Hanged have the ability to paralyze people out of activation. Draugr will be more consistent, but Hanged have a higher potential impact on the game if they're not dealt with.

Archie himself brings a lot of mental play, though I'm unsure Molly benefits most--I'm inclined to say masters that can't summon consistently/formidable fighters or require elite units benefit more. The armor upgrade is generally not worth it, and the other two upgrades are situation specific, mostly terrain imo. Molly can (0) him, but it seems less efficient compared to what she can do with normal summons, even considering fewer chances of failure. Archie's upgrades give him extra (0) abilities, so Molly can't use them out of activation, and Archie's (0) actions are where I think he brings real value to a crew. 

Archie seems more of a set up character and occasional fighter. His (0) is his most important AP because of the large amount of strong manipulation he presents in a difficult to kill form--he's difficult to take down in one activation, and his movement based abilities are either unopposed or skill 6, higher than average. With either specific upgrade, Archie can realistically create a two enemy model grouping for Molly to summon, which starts turning Horror Molly into a real beast for everyone's favorite HtK summons, punk zombies. Leap will be more consistent, since it's unopposed, but tentacle is better, since Archie doesn't move towards the enemy.

Once in the melee, Archie will likely use his AP to fight, which can be good, but it'll be his (0) that presents the larger threat--with leap, Archie can absorb damage and escape after providing support, and with drag Archie can bring more people into that sweet, sweet, unnerving aura with a Rg 3, Ml 6 disengaging strike, almost as good as Jakuuna without the fragility. 

The difficulty will be getting Archie and his crew into position to work the magic. He's average in movement, and so setting up any of the above will require tuning your other hires or play around him. But, your opponent won't know if you're going for a set up or just using Archie as a beat stick, so the mind games can be very real. Chaffe will fall to Archie in fairly short order between 4 damaging attacks each activation, and set ups will look almost identical to just fighting. 

Fun combos with Archie:

1.  Your 3 Draugr give Archie soulbound upgrades. Archie throws one, and uses his two other AP for melee, discarding the other two to heal 4 damage, reaching his per activation healing cap. Unlikely to occur in regular play, but fun to tinker with. 

2. Jack Daw puts one of his upgrades on Archie. Archie activates and throws it back at Jack Daw.