Git y'er Bro-Gremlin theory and reports

[Boshea]

So finally looking at putting more table time into my Gremlins. Primarily I've been a Viktoria player with Sonnia and Pandora as my next two most played masters. So its been a bit of learning experience getting used to the controlled chaos and fragile nature of Gremlins, as well getting more familiar with the GG2016 format. Currently I'm looking at focusing on Sommer to get the faction down since I feel he represents Gremlins the best. I have access to most of the faction (excluding Book 3) save the following models.

• Ulix's box
• Wong's box (Except Wong himself)
• Gators
• Hog Whisperer
• Waldgeist

As for a core to list building here is what I'm considering as a starting point

• Somer
  • Family Tree
• Skeeter
• Skeeter
• Bayou Gremlin
• Bayou Gremlin
• Bayou Gremlin
• Slop Hauler
• Trixiebelle

So its a fairly standard summoning core, with around 20 points to build towards the scheme/strategy. Depending on how bad I need additional 0 actions the skeeters can be swapped for Ol' Cranky. Trixie is including in the core to help my crew advance forward while still keeping the engine running as well as the ever useful Ill Omens. Coming from primarily offensive masters, my main problem has been keeping my support pieces moving while still having the AP to actually support things. For the purpose of getting a feel for the crew and I'm looking at Lenny with his upgrade, and the Sow to round out the list. Both provide me some heavy hitters for the crew as well as additional summoning. It also forces me to learn how to control Set'er Off once I get some piglets out, which means I'll likely add in Pig Feed for Somer.

Anyway kind of a rambley first post, but hopefully I'll have a report or two up by the end of the week,

[Omenbringer]

I would probably recommend dropping Trixiebelle. She costs as much as 2 Piglets who offer a lot more for the crew, especially in the movement department. The only thing that she really does is allow the cheating of Initiative but when you will likely out activate 99% of the crews in the game (more so if the summon engine really starts churning)

Old Cranky can be a good option against crews that employ a lot of WP attacks in conjunction with the General Gremlin upgrade Liquid Bravery, though clustering Gremlin's around that small bubble for Duck (the defense boost) is just begging to lose a bunch of Bayou Gremlin's to blasts. Skeeters do an awful lot for the crew, especially once the control hand is gone. The suit provided by Do It Like Dis! and the Trigger denial of Quit Screwin' Round goes a long way toward offsetting the Gremlin randomness with attack actions (especially in regards to the Bayou Gremlin and Piglet forced triggers). Add in Down the Hatch from the Liquid Bravery upgrade, Pull My Finger (nice for high defense models) or Warn the Kin (allowing the Skeeter to tie up models via engagement without shutting down gremlin shooting) from the Can O' Beans upgrade. Also consider that Skeeters can can do two of these 0 actions per turn if they sit still.

The Sow is a beast and can replace herself when killed but I prefer Lenny for Piglet summoning (Skeeter or Som'er Do It Like Dis! for a and it isn't difficult to generate 2 per turn). Lenny also does a lot more for the crew via his Dumber Luck ability (helping with those Bayou Gremlin and Piglet forced trigger issues) and his Big Target ability which helps a bit in keeping healthy Bayou's alive (raising them to a point where a lot of moderate damage flips wont kill them in one go) and reducing the impact of their Drunk & Reckless ability to generate more AP. I understand the desire for a heavy hitter but a Som'er summon factory is more geared toward disposable models that pack "punches in bunches," though with triggers can also deliver a surprising amount of damage. Personally I think Old Major works better than the Sow (in a Som'er crew you'll likely see Ceaseless Advance operating more consistently since your opponent has a lot more incentive to dump their control hand quickly and you'll have a lot more models to activate after) and does more for the crew as a whole (throw on the Saddle upgrade and he does even more).

Keeping the support alive is always an issue (since it is what makes the crew function at top form) but it is also one that is often tied to trying to bring to much support in comparison to the staple models that make everything function (what I term Menoth syndrome).

For your Som'er upgrades aside from Family Tree I would look hard at Encouragement (probably one of the best upgrades in the game) and then Can O' Beans, Liquid Bravery (if likely to face a lot of WP duels then this one is first), and Pig Feed (Pig Feed isn't that great honestly as it puts Som'er to close to danger and ties your piglets to his bubble, it is better to just hire a Hog Whisperer if you are planning on running your pigs away from your Gremlin's).

Hopefully that helps a bit.

[Kofibrake]

Masterful round up!

I would so add a catapult to the list.

so,

Sommer

Lenny

pigapult

3 Bayous

Skeeters

Merris

Gremlin Taxidermist and

Slop hauler

 

Gremlin taxidermist + Lenny + pigapult combo. Lenny whacks piglet at catapult, kills the piggy and dropping corpse counter which the taxidermist would bring up as stuffed piglet, then sacrifice it to bacon load (and heal the piggapult as well)

aftera couple of rounds of porksplosion, you can start throwin bayous as well, to start nailing those scheme markers.

[Kofibrake]

Merris would be to counter the Piggapult and Taxidermist bubble from being attacked with her blast effect protection.

and also to drop scheme markers.

[Omenbringer]

A decent idea but honestly the normal Piglets are usually the better ammo for the Pigapult. They come with a lot less downsides. The -1 to the Pigapult's Sh coupled with not being able to cheat the damage from using the Stuffed Piglet's is huge and combine to greatly reduce the potential of generating those blasts that would make it more desirable over the standard piglets. Instead use the summoned Stuffed Piglets to push up field and pressure your opponent.

Additionally consider that what you are planning would fall into what I call "Menoth Syndrome". You are looking at 25 SS of your crew (Pigapult, Gremlin Taxidermist, Lenny with I'll Love It and Pet It...upgrade, to keep it functioning turn after turn you will also likely need a Slop Hauler at 5 SS) tied to just making the Pigapult function. All of which will need to stay close to the Pigapult reducing their impact for the rest of the crew. Adding Merris to protect the mass of models adds another 6 SS, runs the risk of her being killed and throwing out a lot of Burning 4 via Immolating Demise to the massed friendly models, along with removing one of the best scheme runners in the game to back field duty.

I would recommend either Lenny or the Gremlin Taxidermist with the Pigapult, not both. Use the SS to buy more Staples.

[Munindk]

I'd consider swapping Trixiebelle for Lenny in your core crew.

Alternatively, you could just keep your core to Somer with Family Tree, 1 Bayou Gremlin, 1 Slop Hauler and pick the rest according to strategy and schemes. That would put up to 7 more Bayous, Lenny, Trixiebelle, 2 Skeeters, Pigapult, Merris, Sammy and a big pig with Saddle on your "models that I'll want in my bag" list.

[Math Mathonwy]

18 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

I would probably recommend dropping Trixiebelle. She costs as much as 2 Piglets who offer a lot more for the crew, especially in the movement department. The only thing that she really does is allow the cheating of Initiative but when you will likely out activate 99% of the crews in the game (more so if the summon engine really starts churning)

I'm not opposed to switching Trixiebelle for two Piglets but Piglets do have the problem of really low Wp (so really struggle against some opponents and are a bit of a dangerous pick vs Neverborn and Ressers). Also, Trixie offers quite a bit of movement herself for both you and your opponent through her Gremlin Lure. Plus, her Scheme Marker tricks can make certain Schemes really easy. And if the terrain allows it, some Strategies can also be really hampered through judicious use of Gremlin Lure. So I wouldn't discount her entirely even if I agree that generally two Piglets are something really worth considering.

[Omenbringer]

10 hours ago, Munindk said:

Alternatively, you could just keep your core to Somer with Family Tree, 1 Bayou Gremlin, 1 Slop Hauler and pick the rest according to strategy and schemes. That would put up to 7 more Bayous, Lenny, Trixiebelle, 2 Skeeters, Pigapult, Merris, Sammy and a big pig with Saddle on your "models that I'll want in my bag" list.

I would definitely caution against running a Single Bayou Gremlin as the core of a summon factory. Personally I never run less than 3 as the core, to prevent a sniper or From the Shadows model from shutting down Get Your Bro! early in the game.

6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I'm not opposed to switching Trixiebelle for two Piglets but Piglets do have the problem of really low Wp (so really struggle against some opponents and are a bit of a dangerous pick vs Neverborn and Ressers). Also, Trixie offers quite a bit of movement herself for both you and your opponent through her Gremlin Lure. Plus, her Scheme Marker tricks can make certain Schemes really easy. And if the terrain allows it, some Strategies can also be really hampered through judicious use of Gremlin Lure. So I wouldn't discount her entirely even if I agree that generally two Piglets are something really worth considering.

Valid points, though I usually run the Liquid Bravery upgrade which puts Piglet's Wp on par with Trixiebelle's (not considering SS use).

[Clement]

I've always been nervous about running piglets too much in a somer crew.  In theory they can do good things with truffles, but too often their attending gremlin is murdered and the piglet in question goes careening off into somewhere I'd rather not.

One of the things that Skeeters do that's so handy that hasn't been mentioned is mobility for somer.  A great trick is to start the game behind somer, use the first skeeter AP to put up masks for everyone, then the second AP to stab Somer.  He will now get his masks trigger automatically, and then scoot up the field, saving his precious AP for drowning your opponant in Bayou Gremlins (which he now has the mask he needs baked right in).

[Boshea]

So forgot to take notes from my last game to do a good battle report.

Strategy-Interference

Schemes

• Convict Labor
• Take Prisoner
• Exhaust their forces
• Undercover Entourage
• Frame for Murder

I took Exhaust and Entourage with the following

• Somer
  • Family Tree
  • Liquid Bravery
• Liquid Bravery
• Trixie
• Bayou Gremlin
• Bayou Gremlin
• Bayou Gremlin
• Slop Hauler
• Lenny
  • Love it and pet it
• Burt
  • Dirty Cheater
• Skeeter
• Skeeter

 

Opponent played Kirai with Frame on an Onyro along with Entourage. Forget the finer details but he also had Izamu for a heavy hitter and the Nurse+Construct combo to summon off.

A lot of the game came down to my opponent still grasping Kirai as well as not being overly aggresive. Turn one I recklessed Trixie up to lure Somer and the Hauler in and allow for 3 new Bayous. The following turn I was able to do the same again giving me extreme activation advantage along with easily controlling 3 of the table quarters. Managed to get a piglet out and have it engage two Onryos for most of the game before getting killed by Ikiryo. Due to some bad movement most of the models I was damaging were not in LoS to Malevolence.

I definetly got a better handle of moving my crew forward and when to switch from summoning/support to offence. I also see the appeal of Piglets if you can manage to control them. DF 6 goes surprisingly far with a decent Eat any Thing trigger or two.

[Omenbringer]

Learning to control Piglets takes a bit of practice. It is roughly equivalent to knowing when to transition from Summoning to Offense with Som'er. Taking Pig Feed on Som'er and/or hiring a Hog Whisperer helps a lot by extending the range of control. Generally speaking I like to have my Piglets and Hog Whisperer work a flank in tandem, alternating their "free" movement actions and dropping Scheme Markers as they go. A pair of Piglets and a Hog Whisperer can cover a lot of ground each turn and throw out a lot of Scheme Markers doing it. One other benefit is that killing Piglets in range of the Hog Whisperer provides a consolation Scheme Marker. The Skeeter's can also offer some good control by providing guarantied Triggers through Do It Like Dis!. The Hog Whisperer could be thought of as a liability to the control but if he is sufficiently up field rampaging pigs are a lot less of a danger to your forces.

[Clement]

16 hours ago, Boshea said:

Opponent played Kirai with Frame on an Onyro along with Entourage. Forget the finer details but he also had Izamu for a heavy hitter and the Nurse+Construct combo to summon off.

One thing worth noting is that Izamu is one of those models on Trixie's "Magical list of things to ruin with Gremlin Lure"(Riders are on this list too, but focus first for them).    I've had a few games where Trixie will leg it up to Izamu and then gremlin lure him off deep into rough terrain in a far corner of the board and stick him with slow.   Ever watch Izamu scheme run because it would take too long for him to get back into the action?  Good times...

[EnternalVoid]

10 hours ago, Clement said:

One thing worth noting is that Izamu is one of those models on Trixie's "Magical list of things to ruin with Gremlin Lure"(Riders are on this list too, but focus first for them).    I've had a few games where Trixie will leg it up to Izamu and then gremlin lure him off deep into rough terrain in a far corner of the board and stick him with slow.   Ever watch Izamu scheme run because it would take too long for him to get back into the action?  Good times...

Love doing this to models with any sort of push actions, but be careful of any masters or models that can play the yo yo game.  Had a game once where I pulled Izamu towards me, they pulled him back, then I pulled him closer again, they pulled him again, and then I pulled him back.  With a Master like Kirai, if she has the right upgrade she can teleport to Izamu and then teleport him back up the field.  Makes timing very important to when you use your trick.

[Boshea]

So bringing the discussion to a bit of theory since it'll be some time before I can get another game in. While I enjoy Sommer, I still need to get another box of Bayous and possibly piglets (at least in prep for Ulix) to play him without proxy. I can circumvent this by focusing on his Boomstick more on top of his other support options and less on Family Tree. The other option is looking to masters who fit my previous "Kill em' all and let Fate sort it out" style of player. Ophelia, Wong, and arguably Mah fit this style of play better.

Mah and Sommer fit into the same camp of good offensive capabilities along with being a strong support piece.

While not having his box I do have a Wong model from his M1E version. While losing out on Lightning Bugs, I already own most of the other foundation pieces to Wong. Ol' Cranky for card cycling and soulstones, Sammy to combo with Cranky and carry Ooh Glowy, and a large selection of good Glowy targets.

Ophelia is another master with good offense with some decent support abilities, but leans heavier on the offense side. I think most of the reason I haven't really done much with her is not getting her "Reload" style of play to click.

[Math Mathonwy]

8 hours ago, Boshea said:

Ophelia is another master with good offense with some decent support abilities, but leans heavier on the offense side. I think most of the reason I haven't really done much with her is not getting her "Reload" style of play to click.

There is not much to "Reload". I tend to use Ophelia's guns for Plink most of the time. Her built-in guns are better in most situations and with Youngs I usually try to Focus next to Lenny.

[Omenbringer]

13 hours ago, Boshea said:

The other option is looking to masters who fit my previous "Kill em' all and let Fate sort it out" style of player. Ophelia, Wong, and arguably Mah fit this style of play better.
Mah and Sommer fit into the same camp of good offensive capabilities along with being a strong support piece.

A Som'er Elite list might be what you are looking for. I know a lot of the other Som'er players prefer it to the summon Engine. Perhaps they will post their typical lists.

Quote

While not having his box I do have a Wong model from his M1E version. While losing out on Lightning Bugs, I already own most of the other foundation pieces to Wong.

Take a look over at Gadzooks Gaming for the singles that you are looking for.

[Boshea]

Elite Som'er is the list I always hear about, but never seen how to put it together.

Out of the Wong Box, its pretty much only Mancha Roja that I'd need to get as a single. For what it'd cost to get him and then a box of Lightning bugs may as well buy the entire box in the event I wanted to play the assistant. Even Roja isn't that high on my need list because I'm not exactly hurting for killy models.

[Omenbringer]

I seem to recall the core of the Som'er Elite list is Trixiebelle, Merris, Francois LaCroix, and Lenny.

[Boshea]

So ran a tournament Saturday, and due to low turn out acted as the 4th participant. Since every player would get a prize, and standings only affected pick order for prizes I treated myself as a 4th player instead of a bye. Still played more for fun than try-hard win mode.

Played Wong for the day since I'd been wanting to give him a try, and had hoped to finish some games before time. Took a pretty similar list into all three rounds of the following core.

• Wong
  • Gremlin's Luck
• Old Cranky
• Sammy
  • Ooo Glowy
• Trixiebelle
• Rooster Rider
• Rooster Rider

Round 1 Arcanist

• Strategy-Reconoiter
• Deployment-Flank
• Schemes
  • Exhaust their forces
  • Undercover Entourage
  • Take Prisoner
  • Frame For Murder

This was the only round where I fudged pairings, and I wouldn't call it a good representation of my skill with Wong. This was basically a trial by fire demo since it was the player's first game with a borrowed crew. I helped him build a pretty straight forward list, basically copying the Ramos crew from Schemes and Stones episode 38 and giving him a general idea how to manage it. We also played with schemes fully revealed so that I could easily recommend some to him. I took Convict Labor and Exhaust their Forces, and he took Entourage on Joss with Frame for Murder on Howard. For additional models I took Glowy Lazarus, and two Bayou Gremlins. Normally I'd fill points with Stuffed Piglets, but I knew Arcanist can ignore pulses fairly easily. Bayous can also hold sections for Reconoiter. I played Lazarus fairly aggresive Luring him twice to get him near the center so that he could rapid fire one turn one. Managed to kill a small minion or two and clip some damage on Ramos. Roosters Recklessed to oposite ends of the center line to start Convict, with Wong grabbing a Cranky scheme to get the third there. Turn two Howard managed to get Sammy and Lazarus engaged, and while Lazarus managed to last through a decent amount of attacks from Howard he duffed all his attacks back and was finished off my Ramos. Lazarus scrap was turned into a spider, which worked against the Ramos player since it gave an easy target for Wong to finish of Howard. While I managed to clear the area of spiders and spider like men, I ended up giving him full points on frame. I did manage to get a Rooster to finish off Ramos before time was called for a moral victor. Game ended on turn 3 as a 6-6 draw. I managed 2 points on both schemes and the strategy, while he got full point for Frame, 2 point on Entourage, and 1 on strategy. I attempted to get my other Rooster to engage Joss, but he couldn't get away from a spider. Considering it was his first game, he played it very well.

 

Round 2 Neverborn

• Strategy-Extraction
• Deployment-Standard
• Schemes
  • Search the Ruins
  • Show of Force
  • Leave Your Mark
  • A Quick Murder

Neverborn crew was the following

• Zoraida
  • Animal Shape
  • Hex Bag
  • On Wings of Darkness
• Bad Juju
  • Eternal Fiend
  • Hexed Among You
• Waldgeist
• Waldgeist
• Waldgeist
• Mature Nephilim
  • Retribution's Eye

I took Glowy Burt, Merris, and 2 Stuffed Piglets to fill out my points. For schemes I had Convict and Leave your mark, while my opponent took Quick Murder (Trixie) and Show of Force. While I was able to mess with him Hem a little by having Trixie and Burt mess with who he picked, I mostly had him on his backfoot early by killing the mature turn one with a combination of Burt and Wong. While his crew was working towards the center to fight for Extraction I had my rooster and Merris going up the flanks for Convict and leave your mark. Forget a lot of the finer details for this game since it was mostly a brawl in the center. Burt went down to Juju on turn 2 after Black Jokering the terror check after I cheated to win initiative, and Sammy also Black joker the terror check on turn three when I cheated to try and Jinx him. Gremlin's Luck was extremely useful for working down Zoraida and two of the Waldgeists while avoiding the Voodoo doll. Stuff pigs also worked very well for keeping models stuck in place and providing a nice pop of damage. Pretty sure that pop of damage though is what lead to Trixie's death on turn 3 for full points. Originally I had planned for Merris to run around in the back getting Leave your mark while maybe tossing Fire from the backfield, but ended up bringing her into the brawl to deal with Juju. Since my convict markers were pretty much unopposed, I had one of my roosters in a back corer do Leave your mark instead. Game ended Turn 4 as a 9-7 win for me. Managed full points on schemes and 3 points on Extraction. Opponent had full points on schemes and one point for Extraction.

 

Round 3 Ten Thunders

• Strategy-Collect the Bounty
• Deployment-Close
• Schemes
  • Hunting Party
  • Detonate the Charges
  • Exhaust their Forces
  • Inspection

10T crew was the following

• Jakob Lynch
  • Recall Training
  • Woke up with a Hand
  • The Rising Sun
• Hungering Darkness
  • Recall Training
  • Not sure if there was another upgrade
• Johan
  • Recall Training
• Scion of Black Blood
• Illuminated
• Illuminated
• Illuminated

I took Glowy McTavish and 3 stuffed pigs. For schemes I took Convict and Detonate the Charges, opponent took Hunting Party and Inspection. Won initiative and had McTavish kill one Illuminated right away. Had one Rooster head out to deal with a single illuminated one flank, while the other managed to get a charge on Johan after he activated. Had one stuffed pig go annoy the Illimunated who just lost his friend, and the other two annoy Huggy. Those pigs then let Wong randomize onto Huggy eventually killing Huggy and both pigs and putting a decent chunk of damage on the scion. Turn two I cheated for initiative to have my rooster finish off Johan. My other Rooster then Black Jokered the terror check to deal with the flanked illuminated (kind of theme of the day). Managed to pull full points on Detonate this turn from various models advancing on me. Remainder of the game was mostly me slowly losing momentum from mediocre card draw and amazing Black Joker flips. Game ended 8-5 win for me, and was my only game which managed to go to turn 5. Managed full points on Convict and Detonate and 2 points off Collect the Bounty. Opponent managed full points on Hunting Party, and 2 points on Collect the Bounty.

Ended with day with 2 wins and a draw, which technically would be first place if I wasn't TO. Overall three very enjoyable games, and I was much more of a fan of Wong than I have been of Somer. I really liked the core list I had, since Wong and two Rooster can very easily have Convict setup on turn 1. I was not overly impressed by Trixie though.  Maybe it was bad luck, but I had several stolen turns wasted on bad terror flips or find her doing very little if there was nothing to Lure. For 8 points I could have taken another heavy lifter as a backup for my Glowy model. As for Glowy models I really liked the three I played. McTavish can be devastating if you get him in a good spot, but usually found him starved for actions. Lazarus was able to put up with a surprising amount of abuse, and can really help Wong's blasting game with Auto-Fire. I like that I can throw Burt into melee pretty easily with a stuffed pig or two to throw attacks on with no fear of taking damage off the pulse. Also helps for when Wong is shooting into that combat since he's immune to the Pulse off of Lightning Jump. Out of the three I think I like Lazarus the best, since he's tough and reasonably good at range or melee. McTavish is also pretty scary, but I think I need to more mindful of keeping Cranky near him to toss markers for Gator snack. There are a few other models I want to try Glowy with, and I also need to try dropping Trixie for either another heavy hitter or more activations.