The Governor's Office

[ArcanistHero29]

Good evening everyone.

Here is my blog for my new crew, for a Tale of Many Bloggers that I'm starting in my local area with some friends. I hope you all enjoy it and fingers crossed I do better with this lot than I normally do with my Ten Thunders....

http://thegovernorsoffice.blogspot.co.uk/

[RodneyAnon]

Now that's a nice lookin' Lucius.

But I think this are might be for strategy. I think there's another thread for painted models.

[Druso]

Great to have another Guild member!

[ArcanistHero29]

Cheers guys, just updated it again

[Ludvig]

7 hours ago, RodneyAnon said:

Now that's a nice lookin' Lucius.

But I think this are might be for strategy. I think there's another thread for painted models.

This place is for anything relating to the guild really so I see no problem with this.

 

@ arcanisthero29: Great job on the painting and welcome to the right side of the law! If you picked Lucius to have it easier and are going to start out with lower ss games you may be in for a tough ride. Let us know how it goes!

[RodneyAnon]

Sorry. I wasn't sure about what should & shouldn't be posted here. Thanks for letting me know; as soon as my Lucius model is based, I'll post him here.

And I agree - brilliant painting job.

[ArcanistHero29]

Thanks guys  rather enjoying playing guild, I will admit I'm finding the lack of card draw/cycle to be quite unnerving at times. Hoping to get a few games in against other opponents and see how they perform. I will admit I'm limited with my crew selection  at the moment due to how our Tale of Many Bloggers works but I'm hoping it'll allow me to learn all the strengths and weaknesses of my collection 

[ArcanistHero29]

I will admit I am struggling somewhat with Lucius! The latest update details my issues I'm experiencing, but I'm starting to wonder if Hoffman would've been a viable choice instead :/

[Ludvig]

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with Lucius, would be fun to have reports from someone getting him to work. 

Think you mentioned Perdita? She is generally considered good.

[admiralvorkraft]

For what it's worth I took Lucius against a very experienced Ramos player today and beat him 8-5. It would have been more but I screwed up twice trying to get my third point for Exhaust Their Forces.

Lucius can work, but learning him in the first place is like banging your head against a brick wall and then getting him to run well requires an intense amount of effort from you the player. I definitely think that he is underpowered - possibly the weakest master in the game - but I don't think he's as crap as a lot of the meta seems to. And I nearly always have fun playing him now.

I'll read your blog and see if there's anything I can say to help.

EDIT: None of what I am about to say is gospel. This is what I have found works for me, no more no less.

Dashel and Riflemen are, in my experience, a trap. A single rifleman standing next to an Austringer is all I'm willing to invest in a static gunline, and I'm more likely to bring a Pathfinder in almost any circumstance. The gunline just doesn't work in Malifaux, especially not against an experienced opponent. I get most of my killing done with Hunters or Witchling Stalkers. I'll often take a Death Marshall to box a major threat and then just sit on it all game. Sue is great for his card draw (from the Hurt ability) and for his ability to hand out Finish the Job.

Here ends the obligatory "model recommendation section."

Ultimately no minion will "fix" Lucius because, as a master, he isn't fundamentally broken (he's bad, there's a difference). Running Lucius effectively is an exorcise in resource management, even more so than Malifaux generally. It's about learning to love the cards in the 7-9 range and how to juggle soulstones and suits. Trading a Master AP for a Minion AP is kind of a bum deal, so it's critical to figure out in advance which minions are best suited to doing what, and whether they can do that efficiently in their own activation or whether Lucius is giving you some kind of added value.

Lucius does some things better than most or any other masters. He shuffles his board position, and he kills his own models. That may not seem like much (especially the second one) but if you're clever, and a bit of a masochist, you can turn them to your advantage. You just need a plan in advance.

If I see one or more schemes that requires you to interact with the other crew but leave it alive I'll often take Lucius - he denies points for Exhaust and Catch and Release very easily (though not as easily as he used to deny Distract and Cursed Object. Not sure why he needed the stealth cuddle...). He also scores marker schemes very easily, especially ones that score all at once like Set-up, Detonate the Charges, etc. He is less good at keeping the enemy off of markers for Convict Labor.

For example, in the game against Ramos I saw Take Prisoner and Exhaust as easy points to deny, while I could pretty easily score Exhaust myself and Detonate the Charges would be trivial. I selected my crew with a specific plan for each model. A Pathfinder would put early pressure on the opponent and summon traps to act as free soulstones (plus card cycling). Sue would pad my hand and provide Finish the Job to give me a backup vector for Detonate, in addition to his fairly efficient damage output. An Austringer would help push models around and get Exhaust distributed through Deliver Orders, as well as providing accurate fire. Taking a Witchling Stalker and a Death Marshall would give me two different ways to handle various threats. A Lawyer would provide willpower buffs and Hard to Wound to keep me in the fight around the Extraction marker (I had no illusions of winning that fight, but if I could achieve parity and end ahead on schemes it would still be a win).

I padded the list with two Guild Guard because they are entirely expendable, I hoped my opponent would Exhaust them and I could easily shake it off or kill them to deny points. Before I scored Detonate (on turn two) Sue gave them both finish the job so that I could get some benefit out of killing them.

In the end my plan worked. My Death Marshall boxed his Mechanical Rider and sat on it turns 3-5. The Witchling Stalker killed Joss in an activation plus an activation from Lucius (who blew him up for the coup de grace). I scored Detonate without really trying and got early points for Exhaust. I scored 5vp on turn 2 alone.

ANYWAY

It's hard to talk about positioning and tactics in text, which is why so much of the advice on the forums boils down to "Use x model to do y." If you have any specific questions I'd be more than happy to take a stab at answering them.

[Ludvig]

The cuddle to distract and CO was probably meant to hit Colette and other crews with free interacts as well as tone down the impact of chatty models. Lucius just happened to take a hit from it. I also don't like that it has made insignificant minions a lot vetter because they are invariably horribly overpowered but at least had one weakness.

Nice to have someone outwheighing us naysayers for once  I'm in agreement on a lot of your points, especially Dashel + riflemen. I sometimes do the pathfinder + rifleman combo instead of an austringer and deploy the pathfinder within 1 walk of the rifleman claiming it's bonus.

[ArcanistHero29]

Thanks, your advice is much appreciated. I think I've fallen squarely into the Dashel trap it must be said. I love the model and I keep hoping I'll get more from him than I do. I think I get too attached to my Minions (hence my Orderly fixation) and I'm from a school of play that says 'thou shalt not kill your own guys' which I need to kick to win with Lucius. I think as a result of taking Dashel I also felt obliged to cram in Guardsmen without specifically thinking about what they did, and often had delusions of winning strategies at times. I made the mistake I think of misinterpreting the Scheme and Stones podcast which talks about using Lucius as a beater, but on repeat listening that is in the Neverborn faction I reckon. I also got very fixed on the Sniper upgrade which is good, but often dictates a play style a little too much. I will look at shoe-horning in my Death Marshall and maybe not insisting on using a Henchman all the time. I think I'm maybe too fixed on the idea of using 'themed' models together which has noticeably hampered my play too. I'll update after a couple more games and see where I'm at.

[admiralvorkraft]

I definitely empathize with wanting to take the gunline. I love Dashel's model, and the Riflemen are just gorgeous. But alas.

I typically always take Secret Assets and only Secret Assets, but I think sometimes Secret Objectives could serve me better just due to the insane amount of Finish the Job I've been running with. My one regret in that last game (other than trying to pin my last Exhaust point on Ramos and having him blow up in my face) was not taking it. Then again most of the times that I do run with it, it's completely useless to me.

[RodneyAnon]

On 5/15/2016 at 0:16 AM, admiralvorkraft said:

For what it's worth I took Lucius against a very experienced Ramos player today and beat him 8-5. It would have been more but I screwed up twice trying to get my third point for Exhaust Their Forces.

Lucius can work, but learning him in the first place is like banging your head against a brick wall and then getting him to run well requires an intense amount of effort from you the player. I definitely think that he is underpowered - possibly the weakest master in the game - but I don't think he's as crap as a lot of the meta seems to. And I nearly always have fun playing him now.

I'll read your blog and see if there's anything I can say to help.

EDIT: None of what I am about to say is gospel. This is what I have found works for me, no more no less.

Dashel and Riflemen are, in my experience, a trap. A single rifleman standing next to an Austringer is all I'm willing to invest in a static gunline, and I'm more likely to bring a Pathfinder in almost any circumstance. The gunline just doesn't work in Malifaux, especially not against an experienced opponent. I get most of my killing done with Hunters or Witchling Stalkers. I'll often take a Death Marshall to box a major threat and then just sit on it all game. Sue is great for his card draw (from the Hurt ability) and for his ability to hand out Finish the Job.

Here ends the obligatory "model recommendation section."

Ultimately no minion will "fix" Lucius because, as a master, he isn't fundamentally broken (he's bad, there's a difference). Running Lucius effectively is an exorcise in resource management, even more so than Malifaux generally. It's about learning to love the cards in the 7-9 range and how to juggle soulstones and suits. Trading a Master AP for a Minion AP is kind of a bum deal, so it's critical to figure out in advance which minions are best suited to doing what, and whether they can do that efficiently in their own activation or whether Lucius is giving you some kind of added value.

Lucius does some things better than most or any other masters. He shuffles his board position, and he kills his own models. That may not seem like much (especially the second one) but if you're clever, and a bit of a masochist, you can turn them to your advantage. You just need a plan in advance.

If I see one or more schemes that requires you to interact with the other crew but leave it alive I'll often take Lucius - he denies points for Exhaust and Catch and Release very easily (though not as easily as he used to deny Distract and Cursed Object. Not sure why he needed the stealth cuddle...). He also scores marker schemes very easily, especially ones that score all at once like Set-up, Detonate the Charges, etc. He is less good at keeping the enemy off of markers for Convict Labor.

For example, in the game against Ramos I saw Take Prisoner and Exhaust as easy points to deny, while I could pretty easily score Exhaust myself and Detonate the Charges would be trivial. I selected my crew with a specific plan for each model. A Pathfinder would put early pressure on the opponent and summon traps to act as free soulstones (plus card cycling). Sue would pad my hand and provide Finish the Job to give me a backup vector for Detonate, in addition to his fairly efficient damage output. An Austringer would help push models around and get Exhaust distributed through Deliver Orders, as well as providing accurate fire. Taking a Witchling Stalker and a Death Marshall would give me two different ways to handle various threats. A Lawyer would provide willpower buffs and Hard to Wound to keep me in the fight around the Extraction marker (I had no illusions of winning that fight, but if I could achieve parity and end ahead on schemes it would still be a win).

I padded the list with two Guild Guard because they are entirely expendable, I hoped my opponent would Exhaust them and I could easily shake it off or kill them to deny points. Before I scored Detonate (on turn two) Sue gave them both finish the job so that I could get some benefit out of killing them.

In the end my plan worked. My Death Marshall boxed his Mechanical Rider and sat on it turns 3-5. The Witchling Stalker killed Joss in an activation plus an activation from Lucius (who blew him up for the coup de grace). I scored Detonate without really trying and got early points for Exhaust. I scored 5vp on turn 2 alone.

ANYWAY

It's hard to talk about positioning and tactics in text, which is why so much of the advice on the forums boils down to "Use x model to do y." If you have any specific questions I'd be more than happy to take a stab at answering them.

I'd say that one of the best bits of advice I've gotten about running a Lucius crew was to add at least one hunter from the Hoffman box. I wish I would've paid more attention to the suggestion about picking up a Death Marshall & Witchling Stalkers as yours seem to have done pretty much what they were made to do. I'm starting to think that running a gunline (yes, i went for that as well) is most effective against an opponent fielding a Neverborn crew.  

[admiralvorkraft]

Neverborn have so many ways to get in your face without charging that it's really not worth it without Queeg/Francisco/Mounted Guard to break your gunline free, which means you're taking another 7-9 stone babysitter on top of the 26-odd stones of static gunline...

It hasn't worked for me is what I'm saying.

[Ludvig]

Gunlines are nearly useless most of the time in my experience. Schemes require you to get in close and then you are locked in melee and half your shots will hit your own models (or require you to cheat in cards which Lucius already has a hard time sparing). To clarify: even if you miss you just wasted precious AP.

[ArcanistHero29]

Going to try dual-wardens tonight with Dashel and 2 hounds, death marshall, peacekeeper, that leaves 2 stones I think

[Humphrey]

I dont't like wardens that much. I tried one today and figured out that the high rams I need desperatly are rare resources that are often required elsewere (Issue Command/hidden Sniper/Horror Duels). The  damage track is ok. But just for 1 Stone on top, a Hunter will be much less card hungry and more reliably handing out slow. Maybe running one as a tank to bind hard-hitters.

2 Wardens seem to be a fairly bad idea because I will rarely have two high rams left and if I run Dashel for the cheap focus I tend to get out activated which imo simply kills their whole mechanic.

Just my very slim experience.

[admiralvorkraft]

I would say, focus less on paralyzing and more on punching. Lucius nearby gives them positive twists to attack and, run in conjunction with Hunters you punish your opponents activation order one way or another.

Plus they are great targets for Commanding Presence, and surprisingly durable especially with defensive +1

[ArcanistHero29]

Oh what a disaster! I out-psyched myself and ditched the second warden for a lawyer who had awful luck (namely when I forgot to activate him!). Faced Lilith, Nekima, Barbaros, primordial magic, 2 tots and 2 waldergeists. Dashel did flatten Nekima in two turns but Lucius was assassinated (schemes from the book) and crew crumbled. I lost 8-6 so not a humiliation but wasn't as close as it sounded. Still was fun do can't complain but I fear my peacekeeper may resign after the cards I flipped for his flurry!!!

[admiralvorkraft]

Sounds like a fun game against a decidedly top tier master. Congrats on holding it to two points difference.

The trick with Peacekeepers is to remember to take the rubber claw caps off before the game starts :-P

[Ludvig]

Sounds like you did quite alright. Lilith is very strong. 

What killed Lucius? Could you have been more careful with him?

[ArcanistHero29]

Lilith charged him in the last activation of the round from cover. He'd locked my centre of Lucius, a hound, peacekeeper and warden down with Nekima and I was very conscious of the wounds left so I had been keeping everything at its maximum melee range. This left a gap that she neatly fitted into and her reach allowed her access to him. I'd tried to pinebox Nekima in the previous turn and he red joker'd the resist... My intention was to swap Lucius and Dashel but I lost initiative I think (or panicked and activated Dashel first? Not sure). It was a good game though, yet more learning opportunities 

[RodneyAnon]

5 hours ago, ArcanistHero29 said:

Lilith charged him in the last activation of the round from cover. He'd locked my centre of Lucius, a hound, peacekeeper and warden down with Nekima and I was very conscious of the wounds left so I had been keeping everything at its maximum melee range. This left a gap that she neatly fitted into and her reach allowed her access to him. I'd tried to pinebox Nekima in the previous turn and he red joker'd the resist... My intention was to swap Lucius and Dashel but I lost initiative I think (or panicked and activated Dashel first? Not sure). It was a good game though, yet more learning opportunities 

Always make sure that you have at least one stone left going into that last round. And it's also worth considering ditching Dashel for a Ryle. If you could've stoned for initiative (and we were all stoned for initiative during our college years) and swapped out Lucius for Ryle, his hydraulic punch might've made the difference.

Then again, you had a good game! And a person should never let their desire to win get in the way of fun.

[ArcanistHero29]

Big update on blog