Aionus - initial thoughts

[daniello_s]

So, with the official preview of his stats what are you initial thoughts about this guy my Outcast brothers and sisters?

Obviously he will work nicely with Tara and her crew. Since his cost, he will occupy the spot which was to this point mostly reserved for high cost heavy beat-sticks we love to run with Tara  I think now it will be possible to get a second play-style for Tara - burying and punishing style: poke enemy model with Slow/Fast burying it or use Death Marshal to do it and then hit it with Aionus supported by Void Wretches. 

As for other Outcast masters I think Jack Daw can use him well. Torment him to push him or use his actions? Why not?

Viks I'd say would stick to Hodgepodge Emissary rather to Aionus, same as Von Schill. 

Levi might use him as a solid anchor.

Don't think Hamelin would need him to much.

 

What do you think guys and girls?

Edited November 23, 2015 by daniello_s

[KrazyIvan]

First thoughts are that is a tool that could big a big problem for Levi and Tara players, should he show up on the other side of the battlefield. I don't think that he is likely to stop a Tara-bomb, but he could certainly blunt it by weakening the bomb before it is a deployed. He's a bigger problem for Levi since his damage spread makes it pretty easy from him to kill a buried Levi with 2 AP. That means using Levi as more of a scalpel than a hammer, hiding him behind things and using 1 AP to move from behind cover rather than shooting so that you can save his activation until after Aionus has activated. I know that I'll be much less likely to just throw Levi anywhere on the board is Aionus is on the table.

As for what he can do for us...the main thing he brings is Scheme Marker manipulation, which we lack outside of excellent Rat Kings and 'meh' Freikorps Specialists.

I see a ton of utility with Tara. He makes a better Henchmen for Tara than the Scion of the Void certainly. It definitely makes her 'give Fast' bubble an offensive tool, and something you don't have to be as careful with. As you said, it also adds an interesting set of offensive tools for Tara if she takes a bunch of Death Marshals. Having a beater than can reach the enemy no matter where they were prior to being buried or boxed is really, really nice. Since buried models don't get defensive triggers (unless I am incorrect about that) models like Colette will have to be super careful about avoid being buried lest they get Aionous-ized.

He'll be a solid anchor for Levi, and in my opinion only strengthens Pariah of Iron. His fast bubble combines nicely with Rusty's ability to reactivate constructs and Vanessa's ability to force 1 AP actions, potentially giving some of them 3-4 AP per turn. Laz could fire off 8 or 9 shots from his grenade launcher in one turn...that's a lot of blast markers. Mechanical Rider could move 40". Langston could take 8 or 9 swipes. The list goes on.

Outcasts have no problem dealing with Dreamer. That little kid buried to get out LCB you can just murder him.

Finally...Henchmen Hardcore. My usual list is Rusty or Hannah, Johan, Librarian, and a Ronin. Aionus will be taking the leader spot there though. 3 models with a cost of 7 or less, I Pay Better on Aionus, Turf War...discarding your hand results in 12 attacks (through all the flurry-type abilities), 3 of which are focused...that's pretty sexy if you ask me.

Edited November 24, 2015 by KrazyIvan

[Tawg]

I see a ton of utility with Tara. He makes a better Henchmen for Tara than the Scion of the Void certainly. It definitely makes her 'give Fast' bubble an offensive tool, and something you don't have to be as careful with.

That's an interesting thought.  Is new guy really going to change the game of "Give out fast" with Tara?  I don't exactly see +1 damage as changing the game for how much you want to give an opponent Fast.  I mean Wretches already got , that seems decent enough.  Plus if Tara hits everyone with Fast, and then they activate in Clock-man's aura they are undermining his "Discard for Fast" thing.

 

Levi might use him as a solid anchor.

What makes him a solid Anchor?  Just.. high cost?  I don't think he's that exceptional for defense or anything, unless you're fighting casters or something.  Am I missing something, just the fact that people might try to stay a bit further back with him, so easier to keep out of trouble?

 

As a professional Outcast player (In no way infiltrating from Ten Thunders), I can say, I don't know how I feel about this crotchety old man poking my ninja's when they Shadowstep somewhere else on the board.  But then again, if he waste his time poking ninja's I suppose that's a 12-13ss boss-guy wasting time poking a 6ss ninja.. so maybe that's ok.  Moving my Smoke Bombs out of the way however, is not as OK.  I like those being in the way, so that could be troublesome.

[SpiralngCadavr]

You're forced to give your opponent fast. This is just getting another reward for doing so. I think he's pretty darn good at attacking a buried fast model (more likely to be buried w/ fast due to tara's debuff), since he can do 3 attacks with weak 3 against them w/o needing range.

I'm not sure if he has quite the damage to go in all the time, but he's got pretty obscene utility, esp. if scheme markers are relevant. However, that extra AP on a merc means he's easily hitting 5 AP equivalent with Tara (2 + bonus + fast + merc free focus).

I also think the fast thing is great if he's sitting around cost 4-5 models, where spending a 6 or so is very cheap for another AP.

[daniello_s]

Any model with cost 6 and lower will love that guy. Models between cost 7-8 might use his fast occasionally if needed.

[lusciousmccabe]

Don't think Hamelin would need him to much.

I wouldn't say there's a need, but Hammy does like having a big nasty henchman around and speeding up the rat engine by getting rid of slow on your summoned children seems a nice synergy too.

 

[daniello_s]

Actually it is quite good idea. Seems Aionus can be a part of nice Hamelin bobble after all :D

[lusciousmccabe]

Unfortunately I just rechecked the fast bubble and it's non-Peon. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by lusciousmccabe

[Khoregard]

I wouldn't discount aionus with von schill, I feel like between the vs upgrade that gives you stuff when minions kill stuff and how dead hard vs makes his korps, Freikorpsmen hit a sweet spot with synergy between the two.

[the proxy union]

That second attack handing out slow is a big draw for me. Stopping scheme running and preventing your opponent from being able to charge is pretty busted when you also make your stuff fast. The AP swing there is pretty harsh to come back from if you can capitalize on it.

 

Also Jack Daw could see some good use out of this. Slow plus curse upgrades, specifically guillotine injustice, can be rough combo to play against. Add the scheme marker manipulation into the mix and all of a sudden, spring the trap becomes super easy to do.

I could probably think of a half-dozen crazy things to do with each master, all of which would warrant putting the model on the table. The old man has got one mean bag of tricks and I want to try him with each master I own. although I think I would still rather have A&D with Levi.

-Proxy

[WileECoyote]

New player here who loves Tara.

Wouldn't there be synergy between the Scion and Aionus, especially with all the bury mechanics Tara has (voiceless words springs to mind). 1-3 enemy models get buried, burned by Karina, take 4 from the Scion, bunch of attacks from Aionus, maybe a couple void wretch attacks... it seems like you can kill dangerous models without having to worry about los, range, or a counter attack.

The Scion can unbury Aionus with hollow as well, I think.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yes, except the Scion isn't necessary to run Tara well and (at least in my experience) isn't really worth the extra effort. I expect you're overestimating how easy it is to bury things. Getting 3 hits followed by 3 more hits with 3 severe damage flips from one model a turn is ridiculous.

[the proxy union]

yeah... only burying on severe makes it a lot less usefull with Tara. still a good beater for things already burried though...

 

[WileECoyote]

I was thinking more along the lines of the voiceless whispers upgrade (wp check after killing void wretch or bury), or death marshals who love fast/using the scion, or the emissary (I think) that can bury from a distance with the conflux? 

I was less thinking about aionus' bury mechanic, rather his offensive mechanic against buried models that ignore armor, range, and los

That being said, these are just ramblings of a newbie, so I could very well be missing something. 

[SpiralngCadavr]

Sure, middling flat target number duels like glimpse or horror will generally not work on anything valuable, just burn cards from their hand or work on things that aren't worth it. Opposed duels are something better, but you're generally sacrificing the ability to do damage for the attempt to bury and then have them fail another duel to do damage, so it's still fairly hard.

This isn't to reject burying, but it's hugely more reliable as a support move than it is as an attack.

Edit: to elaborate, I can't remember a specific instance I had more than two enemies buried- usually it's either a result of a lucky bury that got through or I concentrated a bunch of cards on getting one important guy buried and messed up.

Edited November 26, 2015 by SpiralngCadavr

[Khoregard]

I would try to look at bury as a luxury - fast and slow manipulation will be useful regardless of what or who you face. sometimes you can bury too, and if it goes off you should try to maximise its impact. that said, Aionus main appeal to me is as a force multiplier on the outlier of the battlefront, making all those awesome 6 or less minions outcasts have access too even better for their points.

Obviously Leveticus players will abuse this synergy by cherry picking even better 6 or less minions, but hey, we're all on the same side here!

 

[Bodiless]

I'm less interested in his ability to bury than I am in his ability to attack buried things. Lots of nasties arrange to bury themselves (Bete, JuJu, Dreamer, Levi, Hungry, Papa, etc). Having that suddenly not be an auto-escape will factor into a lot of list building plans.

Jack + Tormented Aionus will (I think) pose a serious threat to anything buried. 

[KrazyIvan]

I'm less interested in his ability to bury than I am in his ability to attack buried things. Lots of nasties arrange to bury themselves (Bete, JuJu, Dreamer, Levi, Hungry, Papa, etc). Having that suddenly not be an auto-escape will factor into a lot of list building plans.

Jack + Tormented Aionus will (I think) pose a serious threat to anything buried. 

I don't think it'll stop folks from using bury mechanics as an auto-escape, as you put it. Instead it'll change when they activate things or commit them to risky engagements. Aionus provides a little bit of board control where those models are concerned because they will want to activate after the old man. Then I think that we'll see Aionus providing a little SS drain by forcing more expenditures to re-flip initiative so that models that buried late don't get whacked by him at the start of the next turn.

[Bodiless]

Aionus + Jack will (again I think, because I am very very new to Outcast) make that calculation even trickier, because once Aionus has Tormented Jack can then borrow his ability to attack buried models (right?). So you then have to wait out both of them. Plus there are models like Bete and Killjoy whose whole purpose is to start buried and then appear at an inconvenient time and place. Or Papa in a Box, where the idea is to bury him right away and then never unbury him. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Both bête and killjoy can start on the board though, they don't HAVE to start buried. So if you see him in the opposing crew you just have to adapt your deployment and gameplan.

[Bodiless]

True, but that completely changes the way those models are played. If the presence of Aionus forces Killjoy to footslog his way towards my lines I will be quite content. 

[Lonewolf240]

There can be some cool movement tricks with rat kings and Aionus. Aionus can use Midnight to move scheme markers and if he hits the tomes trigger can move any scheme marker near him within two inches. With fast could really make rat kings mean.

[KrazyIvan]

Aionus + Jack will (again I think, because I am very very new to Outcast) make that calculation even trickier, because once Aionus has Tormented Jack can then borrow his ability to attack buried models (right?). So you then have to wait out both of them. Plus there are models like Bete and Killjoy whose whole purpose is to start buried and then appear at an inconvenient time and place. Or Papa in a Box, where the idea is to bury him right away and then never unbury him. 

Totally agree with low wound count models like Bete. Big hitters like Killjoy, however, can probably deal with getting swiped at a couple of time by Aionus. Granted, two severe damage results would still ruin Killjoy's day but how often is that actually going to happen?

[lusciousmccabe]

Especially considering Killjoy's healing, which would no longer be pointless on the first turn in that case.

[Bodiless]

Aionus + Jack = potentially 6 swipes at him. 2 from Aionus, 1 from Jack making Aionus take an action, 3 from Jack copying him. That is starting to get unpleasant even for Killjoy.